EVA1: Quirks or issues, anyone?

[Seanik]

25 years ago (well, actually only 18) I was one of those young, spry, multi-tasking audio guys tethered to a Sony/Ikegami Betacam SP camcorder... probably for the reason you state, lol. Within a couple of years, that position was all but extinct in the ENG world in favor of the "one-man-band." Maybe improvement of the AUTO setting allowed this this to happen, maybe AUTO was improved because this was the trend... not sure. Either way, from about that time (early 2000's), use of AUTO became standard practice (for ENG and one-man-band configs) and has worked out very well. Of course, it's not ideal, but then again an inexperienced field audio tech (or one just having a bad day) is more likely to screw you than AUTO.

From this perspective, as someone who now does more EFP than ENG but still operates mostly as one-man-band (or rather, the extra bodies in the field are rarely devoted to audio), I was actually a bit shocked to discover how poorly the AUTO setting functions on the EVA1. Maybe it is because of the EVA's pedigree from the cinema world than the broadcast world? One of the (many) turn-offs for me when I was briefly considering the Ursa Mini Pro was that there is no AUTO setting, and most importantly, no limiter! What?! That alone was a deal-breaker, as I could never trust it in the way I work (or am nearly always asked to work).

Anyway, I guess I just had an expectation that AUTO would function as decently as, say, a Sony EX-1, pmw-200, FS-5, FS-7, etc. Even the old Pansonic AJ-HDX900 (DVCPro!) I once used worked very well in AUTO... So, it's not a Panasonic issue, per se. Is this just one of the gaps between cinema and broadcast, I wonder?

25 years ago when I started the Auto setting was a disaster obviously I never tried it since : )

 

[icarusfilm]

Seanik if you started 18 years ago how come you are a "junior member" do you pay an extra fee?

25 years ago (well, actually only 18) I was one of those young, spry, multi-tasking audio guys tethered to a Sony/Ikegami Betacam SP camcorder... probably for the reason you state, lol. Within a couple of years, that position was all but extinct in the ENG world in favor of the "one-man-band." Maybe improvement of the AUTO setting allowed this this to happen, maybe AUTO was improved because this was the trend... not sure. Either way, from about that time (early 2000's), use of AUTO became standard practice (for ENG and one-man-band configs) and has worked out very well. Of course, it's not ideal, but then again an inexperienced field audio tech (or one just having a bad day) is more likely to screw you than AUTO.

From this perspective, as someone who now does more EFP than ENG but still operates mostly as one-man-band (or rather, the extra bodies in the field are rarely devoted to audio), I was actually a bit shocked to discover how poorly the AUTO setting functions on the EVA1. Maybe it is because of the EVA's pedigree from the cinema world than the broadcast world? One of the (many) turn-offs for me when I was briefly considering the Ursa Mini Pro was that there is no AUTO setting, and most importantly, no limiter! What?! That alone was a deal-breaker, as I could never trust it in the way I work (or am nearly always asked to work).

Anyway, I guess I just had an expectation that AUTO would function as decently as, say, a Sony EX-1, pmw-200, FS-5, FS-7, etc. Even the old Pansonic AJ-HDX900 (DVCPro!) I once used worked very well in AUTO... So, it's not a Panasonic issue, per se. Is this just one of the gaps between cinema and broadcast, I wonder?

 

[Run&Gun]

25 years ago (well, actually only 18) I was one of those young, spry, multi-tasking audio guys tethered to a Sony/Ikegami Betacam SP camcorder... probably for the reason you state, lol. Within a couple of years, that position was all but extinct in the ENG world in favor of the "one-man-band." Maybe improvement of the AUTO setting allowed this this to happen, maybe AUTO was improved because this was the trend... not sure. Either way, from about that time (early 2000's), use of AUTO became standard practice (for ENG and one-man-band configs) and has worked out very well. Of course, it's not ideal, but then again an inexperienced field audio tech (or one just having a bad day) is more likely to screw you than AUTO.

From this perspective, as someone who now does more EFP than ENG but still operates mostly as one-man-band (or rather, the extra bodies in the field are rarely devoted to audio), I was actually a bit shocked to discover how poorly the AUTO setting functions on the EVA1. Maybe it is because of the EVA's pedigree from the cinema world than the broadcast world? One of the (many) turn-offs for me when I was briefly considering the Ursa Mini Pro was that there is no AUTO setting, and most importantly, no limiter! What?! That alone was a deal-breaker, as I could never trust it in the way I work (or am nearly always asked to work).

Anyway, I guess I just had an expectation that AUTO would function as decently as, say, a Sony EX-1, pmw-200, FS-5, FS-7, etc. Even the old Pansonic AJ-HDX900 (DVCPro!) I once used worked very well in AUTO... So, it's not a Panasonic issue, per se. Is this just one of the gaps between cinema and broadcast, I wonder?

I'm just over 20 years in, now. Cut my teeth on Betacam. NEVER had over-modulated audio bite me using Auto on audio(I'm talking about broadcast cameras-Betacams and VariCams). I'm not advocating throwing the audio guy to the curb, I shoot mostly with an audio guy, but a good Auto system on a cameras audio section can work well.

 

[Seanik]

Seanik if you started 18 years ago how come you are a "junior member" do you pay an extra fee?

Lol, I'll take almost any opportunity to pay an extra fee to become more "junior," for sure. In this case, with this wonderful forum, I get my "junior" status for free

I'm just a recent Sony convert who is enjoying the evolution into more photographic/cinematic imagery by rolling the dice on the EVA1 in spite of the industry infatuation with the FS7. Apologies for the "old timer rant," but I guess I just felt like I needed to lend some perspective to where I was coming from with respect to the value I (and many others) place on the AUTO audio levels setting.

FWIW, I've also combed through tons of comments and debate about Autofocus capabilities, and I honestly can't remember the last time it even occured to me that autofocus was even an option to consider using in my work. I guess we all just operate to some extent from the traditions we were brought up in as well as the needs of our workflow.

 

[icarusfilm]

I am an FS7 owner if it was up to me i would be shooting on a eva1 or simply on a Varicam LT.
The Irony is that it would have a negative impact for at least 1 year or more with clients. Right now on the phone I hear a sigh of relief when they hear FS7 they all know it they even at this point know how to handle LOG etc. It takes a year or two for them to realize that there is an alternative. I was an early adopter of the c300 and I had to listen to producers whining that they want to shoot on the 5DII for a whole year then I was an early FS7 adopter I had to listen to the same guys whine about wanting the c300. Im getting a GH5 for personal projects down the road Ill switch but I am not doing the early adopting thing anymore.

Lol, I'll take almost any opportunity to pay an extra fee to become more "junior," for sure. In this case, with this wonderful forum, I get my "junior" status for free

I'm just a recent Sony convert who is enjoying the evolution into more photographic/cinematic imagery by rolling the dice on the EVA1 in spite of the industry infatuation with the FS7. Apologies for the "old timer rant," but I guess I just felt like I needed to lend some perspective to where I was coming from with respect to the value I (and many others) place on the AUTO audio levels setting.

FWIW, I've also combed through tons of comments and debate about Autofocus capabilities, and I honestly can't remember the last time it even occured to me that autofocus was even an option to consider using in my work. I guess we all just operate to some extent from the traditions we were brought up in as well as the needs of our workflow.

 

[Seanik]

I'm just over 20 years in, now. Cut my teeth on Betacam. NEVER had over-modulated audio bite me using Auto on audio(I'm talking about broadcast cameras-Betacams and VariCams). I'm not advocating throwing the audio guy to the curb, I shoot mostly with an audio guy, but a good Auto system on a cameras audio section can work well.

I completely agree. And just to be clear, I'm not too worried about over-modulation with the EVA1. The limiter setting at max headroom (-12db, I think), and dialing down the base input gain will probably be ok, so long as SNR is low enough to boost it back up in post. I'm just somewhat dumbfounded (spoiled maybe?) by how slow and obvious the AUTO setting functions. I'm still not sure how or when it would be appropriate to use it. I guess it never dawned on me that this would such an afterthought, given how well it has worked for so long (on generation after generation of other cameras).

BTW, I love my audio guys, and would give them tons more work if my broadcast and corporate clients could (or, WOULD) budget for them, but for the past several years, they have been relegated to the luxury category, unfortunately.

 

[Seanik]

I am an FS7 owner if it was up to me i would be shooting on a eva1 or simply on a Varicam LT.
The Irony is that it would have a negative impact for at least 1 year or more with clients. Right now on the phone I hear a sigh of relief when they hear FS7 they all know it they even at this point know how to handle LOG etc. It takes a year or two for them to realize that there is an alternative. I was an early adopter of the c300 and I had to listen to producers whining that they want to shoot on the 5DII for a whole year then I was an early FS7 adopter I had to listen to the same guys whine about wanting the c300. Im getting a GH5 for personal projects down the road Ill switch but I am not doing the early adopting thing anymore.

Exactly. Thankfully, I also edit most of my jobs, so I don't have to worry about having to explain what VLog is (or matching mixed log/rec709 footage using ACES). I am already dreading the moment when I sure enough will have to deal with that, lol.

 

[KrocanX]

Exactly. Thankfully, I also edit most of my jobs, so I don't have to worry about having to explain what VLog is (or matching mixed log/rec709 footage using ACES). I am already dreading the moment when I sure enough will have to deal with that, lol.

I have heard many times that my footage looks grey, without colors, or overexposed after using wrong LUT.. I even seen couple finished works with ungraded LOG footage. So, be ready for everything ).

"Soft Cinematic DSLR look" is also favorite quote..

 

[icarusfilm]

When there is no sound guy I use Lectrosonics PDRs Timecode based lav recorders all the cameras are TC synced.
No RF issiues ever.

I completely agree. And just to be clear, I'm not too worried about over-modulation with the EVA1. The limiter setting at max headroom (-12db, I think), and dialing down the base input gain will probably be ok, so long as SNR is low enough to boost it back up in post. I'm just somewhat dumbfounded (spoiled maybe?) by how slow and obvious the AUTO setting functions. I'm still not sure how or when it would be appropriate to use it. I guess it never dawned on me that this would such an afterthought, given how well it has worked for so long (on generation after generation of other cameras).

BTW, I love my audio guys, and would give them tons more work if my broadcast and corporate clients could (or, WOULD) budget for them, but for the past several years, they have been relegated to the luxury category, unfortunately.

 

[Seanik]

When there is no sound guy I use Lectrosonics PDRs Timecode based lav recorders all the cameras are TC synced.
No RF issiues ever.

Those are sweet. If/when they ever come out with a hybrid recorder/transmitter (so I can at least monitor audio live, i.e. if mic rubs or clanks on clothing, jewelry, etc.) I'd spring for a set. TC sync is nice, but Premiere actually does very well with matching multiple audio sources (even if all you have is a cam mic scratch track). For Sony FS-5 and FS-7, I would be a little nervous about those cams keeping sync though. The clocks on those seem unreliable.

 

[icarusfilm]

I use
https://tentaclesync.com

they feed TC by Audio into any device that has a mic in. I sometimes daisy chain a cheap wireless to hop the sound from the PDR to my earpiece, when I feel i need to monitor it. I just got tired of wirelesses the constant battery changes on four units throughout the day + it the frequencies are getting really crowded.

Those are sweet. If/when they ever come out with a hybrid recorder/transmitter (so I can at least monitor audio live, i.e. if mic rubs or clanks on clothing, jewelry, etc.) I'd spring for a set. TC sync is nice, but Premiere actually does very well with matching multiple audio sources (even if all you have is a cam mic scratch track). For Sony FS-5 and FS-7, I would be a little nervous about those cams keeping sync though. The clocks on those seem unreliable.

 

[Seanik]

More for the quirk/issue pile

More for the quirk/issue pile

I experienced issues with both Peaking and Zebras yesterday (similar to what was reported in another thread about "Peaking Invalid").

I lost both of them (or just one or the other) a few times whenever I did something like adjust the audio monitor volume, (accidentally) pressing the Menu button, or toggle on/off Waveform. They just go away, and cannot be switched on again (via assigned user buttons). Then, a few minutes later, I'd try again, and lo and behold, they suddenly worked again. This mostly occurred as I was rolling on a long interview (locked down), so the issue(s) wasn't critical at the time, but it would be disastrous if I was trying to follow action.

A separate potential issue I may have had: I stepped away for the camera for about 10 seconds to adjust a light (or grab something... can't remember), and when I returned, all the screen overlay info had disappeared. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it back, so I just rebooted, and everything was fine. I wasn't rolling at the time. This could be operator error, as I may have inadvertently pushed something, but I find it very odd that I couldn't at least fix it in the menu.

I'm going to try to see if I can repeat these quirks under different scenarios (in a non work setting) before I take it back out into the field.

 

[Galleddrim]

Oh yeah. I had the zebra disappear on me today, and the assigned button would not bring it up. Rebooted and it worked fine. Was more of an inconvenience, but shouldn't happen.

Chris

I experienced issues with both Peaking and Zebras yesterday (similar to what was reported in another thread about "Peaking Invalid").

I lost both of them (or just one or the other) a few times whenever I did something like adjust the audio monitor volume, (accidentally) pressing the Menu button, or toggle on/off Waveform. They just go away, and cannot be switched on again (via assigned user buttons). Then, a few minutes later, I'd try again, and lo and behold, they suddenly worked again. This mostly occurred as I was rolling on a long interview (locked down), so the issue(s) wasn't critical at the time, but it would be disastrous if I was trying to follow action.

A separate potential issue I may have had: I stepped away for the camera for about 10 seconds to adjust a light (or grab something... can't remember), and when I returned, all the screen overlay info had disappeared. No matter what I tried, I couldn't get it back, so I just rebooted, and everything was fine. I wasn't rolling at the time. This could be operator error, as I may have inadvertently pushed something, but I find it very odd that I couldn't at least fix it in the menu.

I'm going to try to see if I can repeat these quirks under different scenarios (in a non work setting) before I take it back out into the field.

 

[TubEfingers]

Interesting....I did my first shoot with the EVA1 yesterday and had a similar experience.
I have buttons as follows:
User 1 - B+W with red peaking
User 2 - Punch in/focus expand
User 3 - Zebra's

whilst User 1 + 2 buttons would always respond during stand by/recording, User 3 (Zebra) would quite often not respond - was worried that maybe User 3 button is faulty but sounds like its
maybe a bug if other users are also having similar problems.

 

[WayneMann]

My EVA 1 is at Panasonic in New Jersey right now being repaired for a non working iris control. I lost control on the third day of ownership. The iris wheel stopped responding after I powered up the camera and I had no f stop reading on the LCD.

Wayne

 

[Mitch Gross]

For those experiencing functions shutting off, it is most likely from accidentally hitting a control that supersedes it. There is a Lock switch above the audio controls, and you can set which functions/controls it will lock off. That way you don't have to worry about accidentally hitting something.