Quick Actor Rant

[J.R. Hudson]

here's the thing about actors, they are flakes, almost all of them. they see themselves as artists, yet they need you to tell them where to be, what to say, how to say it, where to put their hands, and so on, they are a cross between tained monkeys and parrots.

that being said, for some reason they have huge egos, and think they are the most important part of your production, and as such think they can get away with anything.

when i did my closed auditiong, I had about a 50% no show ratio,

the day before I started shooting my lead actress backed out via email, and didn't give a reason,

the day before we started shooting, one of my supporting actors had to back out, but he was very upfront, and have a damn good reason, and even tryed to help me find a last minute replacement. I would work with him anyday.

but anyway, sorry to rant, I just finished up my production, and even with the actor problems, location problems, and equipment problems, it worked out well.


Actors will never realize they are just one part of a production, not more or less emportant, that the crew members, locations, equipment and so one. and weak link in the chain can snap it.


and no I don't really compare actors to dumb animals, but sometimes they piss me off. Where I grew up, if you say you'll do something, you do it, short of being killed just before doing it.

for example, I say I'm going to be on joe do's set, one friday the 12th, then on the 9th my mother dies and they have to have her funeral on the 12th, well I gave my word, so I show up on set, I gave my word and thats all that matters in this life. this is how I live, and this is the standard I hold all humans to. If you lie one time, I never work with you again.


actors tend to think, if I say I'll do something I might do it, unless I get a better offer.


Jason Miller

Your spin on actors is an enigma considering films demand for collaboration. This has not been my experience whatsoever with actors. Generally, they have been nothing but committed and professional.

In some respects, the actor is the most important part of your production; the second the audience realizes the character cannot act, it's over. The actor is the only person on the project that must become vulnerable and exposed for YOUR film.

A complaint I often hear from many actors are directors who are focused more on the technical spectrum and less on directing their talent. I am very concientous of my actors and their emotions and feelings. They are the first line of defense ni exposing me as a fraud.

Perhaps if you had more compassion for your people, they'd be more loyal to your low-budget escapades.

I am proud to have been told by more than one of my actors that they consider me an 'actors director'.

 

[Zoidoid]

here's the thing about actors, they are flakes, almost all of them. they see themselves as artists, yet they need you to tell them where to be, what to say, how to say it, where to put their hands, and so on, they are a cross between tained monkeys and parrots.

Oof! I think this is a bit harsh, yeah? For a start, the better casting job you do (which may or may not be dependent on your available resources) the less you have to instruct. It's often said that if you get the right actor for the role, 75% of your job as an "actor's director" is done and you can focus more intently on other aspects of putting the film together.

It sounds to me like the people you're talking about aren't really committed. And so, they aren't really actors per say. They're just pretending. Unless they actually commit to projects and have something to show for their work then they're really just waiters pretending to be actors.

 

[Jason Miller]

no the actors that ended up staying one, were wonderful, in fact they didn't need much direction, the two replacement actors did but they both came on the day we started shooting. I even had three actors drive and fly from Oklahoma to San Fran to work on it (on their own dime no less), these are actors I've worked with before and built a trust with. but lets face it, if your a good director, you can pull anyone who looks right off the street and get a damned good show out of them. you might have to take it line by line, coaching movement, inflection, and everything else, like programing an acting robot, but it's possible. just takes more time. just like if you know filmmaking in general, you can take people off the street and have then grip for you, it takes longer, but you can get the job done.

cheep, fast, good,

you can only have 2, sometimes only one. and if you can have only one, go for good.


and yes there are a lot of flaky actors out there, look at the reason people want to be actors. most of them will not tell you that when they were a kid they saw an actor that brought so much joy it inspired them to bring joy,

ask a scintist why they do it, and almost all of them will say, when they were in school, they had a scince teacher than inspired them.

Acting, in the back of the head is viewed as a job without manual labor, that if you can read, and look pretty you can do, lets face it, it isn't exaclty a hard job to act well, the only hard part about acting is getting starting and respected. getting those paid gigs, so you can get the awards, in the sea of all the other great actors, who look just as good or better than you, and can also read.

Jason

 

[Luis Caffesse]

They are the first line of defense in exposing me as a fraud.

VERY very true, and well said.
:thumbsup:

 

[rsbush]

I'm an actor so I guess that makes me a trained monkey or parrot. But at least I'm a trained monkey that can spell correctly. Go back to school and you too may end up as smart as a trained monkey.

 

[Chris Messineo]

This whole thread went off on a tangent I never imagined.

I just want to be clear, I love actors and have nothing but respect for them.

I was simply frustrated with the lack of courtesy that some of them display.

Having said that, the majority I have worked with, have been nothing short of amazing.

 

[Jason Miller]

you're right Chris I did go off on a tangent, and I'm sorry, I'm just going through the same thing you are, or rather I just went though it. about half the auditions were no shows, then my lead dropped out the night before we started shooting, by email no less, not even a phone call, and this is an actress who has had parts in two major hollywood productions, and whos father is a pretty famous Director. so it threw me for a loop, I ended up having to cast two people who have never acted, and shifting some of the other actors who at least new the script to larger parts, then giving the new actors the smaller ones. so I'm just annoyed with actors right now.

I by no means meant to offend anyone, and if you read my full post you'll see at the end of the post that I do not actually compare actos to dumb animals, it was a vent.


rsbush, I did not mean to offend,I was just ranting, venting the frustrations I felt when dealing with actors, as far as school, I have my AA, my BA, my BFA, my JD, and now I'm working on my MFA, I started working toward my first degree when I was 24 after I made enough money, and got tired of dealling with fcc bs. I'm 32 now. but you're right, I can't spell, never been able to, I'm dyslexic, and all my life it's made spelling my greatest problem. however I take pleasure in the fact that I spell better than Einstein ever could lol.

but you spelll much better than Einstein did much better, so using actors logic I guess that makes you one of the smartest men who ever lived.


I vote we stop this pissing contest before it starts, and you realize I was venting some harmless frustrations, and I'll realize you are doing the same, and we'll go from there.

Jason

 

[rsbush]

Jason,
I don't see it as harmless. There are a lot of impressionable minds here and as an educated man I'm sure you know the weight that words carry. You really can't expect to slam a whole group of people for the sins of a few and not expect to have anyone take a shot back. This is a community after all, not your personal blog. Have some respect and others will do the same for you. And by the way your Einstein comment is pretty funny.

 

[cinealma]

I couldn't agree with Mr. Hudson more.

Here's another quick tip:

Unless you're working with union actors and paying them SAG rates (which I guarantee then that they will show up when and where you tell them too 99% of the time), here's what you do for non-budget filmmaking land:

Call your actors. Ask THEM what THEIR schedules look like. Find the days and times they are all available and doing nothing else. Copy that over to a calendar. There's your shooting schedule. Schedule crew and other accordingly.

The few projects I've done so far I pretty much scheduled around my actors's schedules. Some were experienced, some not. BUT, they showed wherever on time and ready to go.

 

[Tom Marshall]

I'm an actor and I'll bite my tongue on the subject or I would wind up pissing off a lot of people...

Acting is an art form. If an actor isn't dedicated to their art then they have absolutely no right to be in this business.

Chris - you're a nice guy, but using the word "stable" was a really bad choice of wording.

Just the nature of the biz - don't take it personal. You're probably not paying very much or at all and actors will go where the money is first. You'd do the same.

Not all of us. Some of us actually have a moral sense of decency and dedication to what we commit to. Your statement is an overly broad generalization and it's just flat out wrong.

Go on two dozen internet cattle calls for no budget projects as "an aspiring actor" yourself, just to see the picture from the other side. Not one or four but two dozen.

Document each one and then come back to this thread and let's discuss the results of all two dozen.

Well, if he has absolutely no desire to play a role, then he'd be missing the point. The whole point of going through that many auditions is so that you can progress your acting career. For him, it would be a pointless exercise. He would have no reason to do that.

here's the thing about actors, they are flakes, almost all of them. they see themselves as artists, yet they need you to tell them where to be, what to say, how to say it, where to put their hands, and so on, they are a cross between tained monkeys and parrots.

Dude, f*ck you. Comparing all actors to monkies or a parrots? F*ck you again.

that being said, for some reason they have huge egos, and think they are the most important part of your production, and as such think they can get away with anything.

when i did my closed auditiong, I had about a 50% no show ratio,

the day before I started shooting my lead actress backed out via email, and didn't give a reason,

the day before we started shooting, one of my supporting actors had to back out, but he was very upfront, and have a damn good reason, and even tryed to help me find a last minute replacement. I would work with him anyday.

but anyway, sorry to rant, I just finished up my production, and even with the actor problems, location problems, and equipment problems, it worked out well.


Actors will never realize they are just one part of a production, not more or less emportant, that the crew members, locations, equipment andso one. and weak link in the chain can snap it.

and no I don't really compare actors to dumb animals, but sometimes they piss me off. Where I grew up, if you say you'll do something, you do
it, short of being killed just before doing it.

Yes you do. You did earlier. I'm not taking back my 'f*ck you' because what you said was wrong. It was an irresponisble thing to say. Actors are PEOPLE, not ANIMALS.

You know, I wasn't going to reply to this thread, but this is the post that really pissed me off.

Acting, in the back of the head is viewed as a job without manual labor, that if you can read, and look pretty you can do, lets face it, it isn't exaclty a hard job to act well, the only hard part about acting is getting starting and respected. getting those paid gigs, so you can get the awards, in the sea of all the other great actors, who look just as good or better than you, and can also read.

In the back of YOUR head. You have no respect for the art of acting nor for actors. I think you've made that pretty clear.

I by no means meant to offend anyone, and if you read my full post you'll see at the end of the post that I do not actually compare actos to dumb animals, it was a vent.

But you DID offend people. You offended me and you offended rsbush. You really need to think about what you're saying before you say it.

So much for biting my tongue...

 

[Jason Miller]

But you DID offend people. You offended me and you offended rsbush. You really need to think about what you're saying before you say it.

So much for biting my tongue...

the point of a rant, and venting is to speak with emotions, to let out the frustration, not to make a logical argument, and walk on egg shells,

I said I did not mean to offend you, however to tell the truth, I don't care that you're offended,

if you can honestly tell me that you've never pulled a no show on an audition you said you'd be at, or you never backed out of a roll for a reason other than your death, or maybe the death of your wife or kids, then you're not in the catagory of a flake, however if you've ever pulled a no show, or worse, not acted in a part you said you would, for any reason other than your death, and you don't seem to be dead, then you are in the catagory of a flake actor.

so lets here it, have you ever in your life pulled the no show, or the back out?

 

[Jason Miller]

Jason,
I don't see it as harmless. There are a lot of impressionable minds here and as an educated man I'm sure you know the weight that words carry. You really can't expect to slam a whole group of people for the sins of a few and not expect to have anyone take a shot back. This is a community after all, not your personal blog. Have some respect and others will do the same for you. And by the way your Einstein comment is pretty funny.

you are correct, however I did not attack any one person, and I said I was responding to the emotions cause by my experiance, if you want to attack my work, its quality, or even my statements, thats more than fair, but i did not make a personal attack on you, Yes I can not spell well, and I've accepted it, and work to improve it, and I honestly don't mind when people attack it, because I know my ability to spell has no relation, to my education, nor how smart I am, or am not, spelling is a skill i've yet to master, nothing more, nothing less.

I have no doubts that you are a great actor, I have no doubts that you are a reliable actor, but ask youself, when a film falls apart because someone backs out, who is it who normally backs out, is it the DP? the head gaffer, the director, or an actor? at least in everything I've seen, its normally an actor, and for sadly no real reason other than, "they are just not feeling it" or something in that line.

jason

 

[Tom Marshall]

Jason, I understand that you were venting. I was too, to be honest with you. But since you're venting on a public forum where anyone can read your thread and take it way out of context - most people here don't know who you are - then you have to take a deep breath and count to 10 before you vent.

I've never pulled a no show, nor would I. I take this acting thing VERY seriously. This, to me, is almost more important that breathing, if that makes any sense. This is what I want to do. This is the only thing I want to do. I just quit my job so that I can do this full time. I would PAY people to have be in something. I wouldn't really do that because I just couldn't afford to...

If you're passionate enough about something, then you'll find a way to show up no matter what.

I can relate to actors not showing up. I directed a short this past October for HorrorFest and had 1 actor walk out of the audition and another say he would be at the filming. The one who walked out called me either a day before or 2 days before filming and said he would be there. He said "well, it's only for credit and meals only, right?" When I told him there was pay, he changed his tune. BUT not all of us are flakes. The other one never even showed up. No phone call, no email, NOTHING.

By the way, I don't think I would direct anything again. It's just too much of a headache...

 

[Chris Messineo]

Chris - you're a nice guy, but using the word "stable" was a really bad choice of wording.

I meant it purely in it's second definition "a group of people working under the same leadership" - since our auditions were to find more actors we could work with on a regular basis (which by the way we did).

 

[Tom Marshall]

I meant it purely in it's second definition "a group of people working under the same leadership" - since our auditions were to find more actors we could work with on a regular basis (which by the way we did).

I know, but I read through all the posts before I replied so I was slightly biased when I replied to your post.


Here's the thing... Some actors flake. Crew members usually don't. Why is that? Well, generally, crew positions aren't "glamorous" at all. They require a lot of work and discipline and, usually, years of film school which isn't cheap. That's where crew people are coming from. On the other hand, anyone can try to be an actor. All you need to do is show up at an audition really. Some experience is usually a good thing. Have you been in a play? Great! You're an actor! But what did that cost the "actor"? Usually nothing. Maybe a hassle with scheduling at work, but other than that? Gas to drive to the theatre? So that's where many "actors" are coming from. But true actors (without the quotes) usually study for years. They have earned the right to be there at the audition and usually are. Not always the case though. Some just study in a class or privately and think that gives them the right to call themselves an actor. That doesn't really mean that they're disciplined or serious enough about their craft to be an artist. That's what separates the artist with someone who just wants to be in movies... the "movie star"... which, to me, is a ridiculous concept.

Make sense?

 

[rsbush]

Jason,
Dude, lighten up on the spelling thing. Didn't think I'd hit a nerve, I was just being a smart ass because you're apparently unaware of the spell check feature. And yes as everyone already knows I am smarter than Einstein and I'm also a great actor. I thought you were gonna let this drop?

 

[rsbush]

Tommy,
Thank you.

 

[Jason Miller]

ok Tommy, you've got a part in my next film. i'll let you know when to be in SF for the shoot, will not be for about 6 months or so.

rsbush I mihgt hvae a prat fro yuo asswell, fi yuo wnat won?


Josan

 

[Sad Max]

I know that my respect for and appreciation of actors and their craft increased substantially after taking some acting classes, myself.*

It's not just about looking pretty and spitting back some memorized words.

That said, screw people who flake, whether they are actors, plumbers, landscapers or grips.

That's what separates the artist with someone who just wants to be in movies... the "movie star"... which, to me, is a ridiculous concept.

A few years back I was working with a very senior British designer (remember C-3PO's arm actuators, from 'Star Wars?' His, baby...) who pointed out that a big difference between Britain and the US, is that British performers aspire to be actors, while Americans aspire to be movie stars, which is not the same thing, at all...


* although strictly for Art Department purposes actors are basically props who walk, talk and dress themselves.

 

[ShamrockFilms]

Canceling the day of, is essentially the same thing.

There is no time to do anything about it.

I love actors and have a great respect for them, but honestly, I think a great number of them are really lazy and unwilling to put in the work required to have a successful career.

I agree.