Questions for Owners

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DjfunkmasterG

Active member
I know there are 101 questions about the HMC150, and what do you think etc etc?

I am a staunch DVX100 lover and owner, and I produce very low budget zombie horror films, for around the 5-10k price range. I am looking at upgrading the DVX100B to an HMC150, but the thing is, I am not 100% sold on the need for HD, because most distributors for the type of films I make aren't going to do a Blu-Ray release for this type of movie. It is just too damn expensive.

I have watched some screen grabs, and video clips. The one with the birds feeding in slo-mo was what sold me on the image, and even the guy who shot it admitted there was some issues, but it just looked really good.

I also opted for the HMC because I simply cannot afford to buy, or rent P2 cards during a shoot. Budget is limited, so I need to keep costs in check while producing these movies and the P2 just doesn't come off as cost effective.

I guess my question comes down to, how many HMC150 owners were DVX100 users and in your opinions would you recommend this camera for shooting movies.?

A lot of the HD short films seem to have been done on P2 card systems, but the fact that I have a plethora of SDHC cards just laying around from my digital cameras makes me wanna jump on one of these cams.

I am most worried about low lighting as most of my films are shot at night.

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Don't worry about lighting issues, the 150 is faster than the dvx100b. Anyone comfortable with the dvx should like the 150. The production workflow is great, because you don't ever have to worry about dumping your cards in the field, using a laptop or paying to have a digital assistant. Your main issues will be in post because you need a fast and up to date edit system.
 
Even if you're not outputting to BluRay, your movies will look better simply by shooting in HD to begin with.
 
It is a natural progression to go from the dvx cams to the HMC. Controls are in a familiar layout, it just "feels" right if you are moving from the dvx to the HMC. The biggest hurdle is getting used to the log/transfer process vs. the log/capture process. That being said, tapeless is just plain awesome. It is so nice to not be thinking about "banding" and drop-outs.
I am still stuck in the SD world, shooting with this camera. It does have on screen guides for shooting 4:3 (essentially window-boxing out the outside area - you can still see them). This turns out to be a super nice feature in that with all that information/data/video real estate in front of you, you can re-center your shots in post, or even add pans... I just am tickled by how much flexibility having all that available video information is when editing in 4:3 and playing around in post....
 
We have shot 2 lo/no budget features on the DVX and our next will be shot on the 150. IMO I feel the down rez from the 150 to SD looks better than the DVX. I feel you will find the camera awesome. I shot the bird feeding video you mentioned and I also believe we have met before at the hagerstown 10 theater when our first film played there. Are you Gary?
 
Hi Matt, yes I am Gary

Good to hear about these things which involves the HMC150.

Another question, what is the 151? Is it just the same camera, but updated? Like DVX100A/B type deal?

I see some people talk about the 151, but I thought maybe it was a typo.

Thanks for the advice and comments members.
 
Like you, I've come from a six year stint using the DVX100 as my camera of choice. I purchased the new AVCHD camera three weeks ago and have been completely astounded by the picture quality the HMC produces.

Here's the catch to upgrading to AVCHD now. Get ready to dump more money on updating editing equipment. Unless you've shelled out some cash on a new computer within the last three to six months, get ready for some problems. Your old dual core is going to hiccup when you try to play back the .mts file from the sdhc card.

Most of the older non-linear editing softwares don't recognize the format. Upgrade there too.

There are solutions out there. Neo Scene by Cineform stands out to me as the best way to get the new files into a workable format, but many may argue that's defeating the purpose of the camera upgrade.

In the end, use what works for you. $3000 plus for a camera may be better served as a budget for your next film.

The DVX still has a lot of life left in it.
 
I was thinking about the importing issues, but my rig is fairly new. I am using a dual core, E8800 (3.0ghz) plus 8gbg of Ram and now running 2 9800GT vid cards, plus over 4 TB of HDD space.

I think Vegas now works with the codecs, I guess we will see. I am going to maybe rent one for a day to try it out and see what happens with it.
 
I think that's a great decision (to rent).

I don't think your computer will be fast enough for AVCHD. At least not 1080, maybe 720.

I do know that the latest Vegas DOES support AVCHD.
 
DjfunkmasterG - I live in falls church and work in DC if you want to shoot some test footage on my HMC and try it out on your computer.
 
Ken,

Thanks so much for the offer. I would appreciate it and would be more than happy to give some cash for your time. I have a plethora of SDHC cards but I just would like to shoot some footage using the settings I have on my DVX100 and in the different frame modes, if I like what i see and i can import and work with it, I will head up to Spec-Comm in Smithsburg and snag two of these.

Hit me up in PM. My only good time to get together anymore is mostly on Saturdays as this month and April I am completely swamped with Editing my latest film. Almost done, but I have put it off for 5 days while I went out to OC so i am behind schedule.

Thanks again for the offer

Gary
 
BluePatriot said:
There are solutions out there. Neo Scene by Cineform stands out to me as the best way to get the new files into a workable format, but many may argue that's defeating the purpose of the camera upgrade.
Click to expand...

I say it's more important to find a way for the AVCHD files to work for you, instead of bending over backwards to accommodate them natively.
 
I think than any distributor... even if they are dealing in SD terms will appreciate an HD final master along with SD. It'll enable you to possible sure additional funds either at time of sale, or for a future imminent HD release.


Another huge factor might also be HD video on demand and HD downloads,etc. This will be a very viable delivery option as things get worked out. Blueray kind of killed their buzz by the whole format war.. and also because of that crazy licensing fee. It's like 10K or more per title.. Stupid way to keep people from adopting it. Only the big boys will shell out on that.



I reiterate that a jump up too Two 150s would be ideal. So simple to synch.. so easy to shoot side by side and at their price it's almost a steal when getting two of them. I could have bought 3 for what my original HVX cost me with P2cards, P2store, batts... etc.


The other absolutely amazing feature that you can't compare is your on-set ability to SAFELY replay and watch your footage. When shooting tape their is always the chance of erasing over something.. especially when time gets away from ya and it's long days. Sure there's media wrangling situations.. but the ability to watch a clip a second after you shoot it for continuity, performance, and other concerns is simply too friggin good to pass up.

One last thing.. This camera allows for such easy on set shooting and editing. No tape camera to ingest... Really awesome to make sure that what you get is working. I try to have an on set assemble edit of my pieces and its just so cool. Since you need to sometimes offload.. why not cut some of it right there to make sure you are getting what ya want.


3.5 years ago I went digital and you couldn't ever convince me to shoot Tape for almost any reason.
 
Justyn said:
I think than any distributor... even if they are dealing in SD terms will appreciate an HD final master along with SD. It'll enable you to possible sure additional funds either at time of sale, or for a future imminent HD release.


Another huge factor might also be HD video on demand and HD downloads,etc. This will be a very viable delivery option as things get worked out. Blueray kind of killed their buzz by the whole format war.. and also because of that crazy licensing fee. It's like 10K or more per title.. Stupid way to keep people from adopting it. Only the big boys will shell out on that.



I reiterate that a jump up too Two 150s would be ideal. So simple to synch.. so easy to shoot side by side and at their price it's almost a steal when getting two of them. I could have bought 3 for what my original HVX cost me with P2cards, P2store, batts... etc.


The other absolutely amazing feature that you can't compare is your on-set ability to SAFELY replay and watch your footage. When shooting tape their is always the chance of erasing over something.. especially when time gets away from ya and it's long days. Sure there's media wrangling situations.. but the ability to watch a clip a second after you shoot it for continuity, performance, and other concerns is simply too friggin good to pass up.

One last thing.. This camera allows for such easy on set shooting and editing. No tape camera to ingest... Really awesome to make sure that what you get is working. I try to have an on set assemble edit of my pieces and its just so cool. Since you need to sometimes offload.. why not cut some of it right there to make sure you are getting what ya want.


3.5 years ago I went digital and you couldn't ever convince me to shoot Tape for almost any reason.
Click to expand...

I know that feeling of erasing footage by accident because of playback. Made that mistake on first night of shooting the film I am editing now. Which is why I got into Serious Magic for video playback. However, to save time on Playback I would usually do 5 takes of most scenes. We were on such a time crunch because we shot in a theater that didn't close until 12, and we had to be out by 9am the next morning, but daylight came by 6 or 7. So with only 6 hours a day to shoot, it was a Pain in the A$$ to get a lot done.

DIstributors and HD masters... As having had previous material distributed before I can tell you not all distributors care about an HD Master. What they are concerned with is a picture clear enough to master into a DVD-5, with good sound, and a product they can market. The HD hype is not as important as the others, and believe me HD isn't going to get you any extra money. Right now there is so little money left for indie film most deals now are 50/50.

An acquanitance has a film with Edward Furlong, Tiffany Shepis and he can't get any money for it. While his film is quite a few steps above my current project, my current project is still very marketable, but no offers for upfront money, I know I have sent out screeners. All the distributors want it, but no one wants to pony up. That part of the game has changed. One has even said, unless it is shot on 35mm, we will not pay.

In terms of HD, I could Master out Deadlands 2, which was shot in SD to HD. Vegas has that ability, however, I would not be doing it to say the film is in HD, but more or less to turn in a high resolution source of the SD material. So the master that gets printed and authored will be of HD specs in terms of rendering, but the original source is 24P 720x480.

I have done this with Many trailers and other short subject matter items I have done for You Tube, Vimeo etc.

Also keep in mind, that if you take the time to set up your shots, and have a good colorist on hand, some SD material can look just as good and most people could not tell the difference between an HD version and SD version. I know you're shaking your head no reading this, but to most people they cannot tell the difference.

I do like the IDEA of an HD source though. While I am not pro-HD pro-SD pro anything, I do want my source material to get better and better, believe me if I had the scratch I would be buying a RED, but I just don't have it, and don't feel like waiting a year + for a scarlet.

Based on Bang for the Buck, the HMC looks like a great buy, and the fact the cost of SD media will keep other costs in check makes me even happier as I rather spend the cash setting up another roadblock filled with cops and army guys being attacked by 500 zombies than spending $1,000 on P2 cards. I like to shoot EPIC scale on small budgets, and you can't do that if you spend all your money on P2 Cards and Cameras that only use P2 cards. WHile I do understand the HVX200 has a better HD picture, again, cost effectiveness is the key to film production.

I can honestly say I haven't lost any money yet making films, have not made any huge profits, very little actually, but the fact all costs were recouped is what matters, plus to an investor I am someone who can sell the fact I know how to stretch a dollar. Most investors don't understand the whole HD SD thing, and trying to sell them on it as a main sell point is moot. It is the story and your ability to make the sale.

Remember these guys know it costs hollywood millions, and they understand that the technology won't be the same, but if you can show them a large scale on small money.... man you will have a better chance of seeing that check written than if you try to sell them that you're shooting on HD.

Just my 2 cents on the subject
 
DjfunkmasterG said:
WHile I do understand the HVX200 has a better HD picture, again, cost effectiveness is the key to film production.
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I believe that your understanding of this is incorrect. If you are referring to the original HVX200, it seems to be accepted that the HMC150 is actually better, particularly in low-light performance. Panasonics updated cameras, including the HPX170 and HMC150 share the same sensor block, which is improved over the original HVX200.
 
Thanks for correcting me on that. I was going by original specs from when the HVX200 had come out, and based on the codec it shoots in versus the codec of the HMC unit.

My apologies.
 
I have been part of several features and broadcast projects that directly contradict your findings. The industry is fragmented and you are probably in the über low-budget, straight to video horror/ exploitation stuff.... That's not the level that I work at. Mostly. Most are 200-300k, action or comedy pieces. Having a film print/ film original and he source is in huge demand for ancilliary markets and because Ir looks better even down-rezed. He is an asset that carries more perks than anything else.


Of course I have seen and been a part of a series of 5k kungfu flicks that get 30k to 150k, but that's just fodder to fill a demand. My next feature is high concept piece shot in Scotland and done for 200k. I will shot on the best cam I can regardless.
 
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