Question: Why "M2 Encore" instead of a Letus Ultimate?

A

AGMedia

Carbonite Member
I guess this question could go in some other category -- but this question is about use with the HMC150.

I'm hours away from pulling the trigger on the Letus Ultimate with Zeiss primes for the HMC150 -- and I just clicked on a banner at this site for the "new" Redrock M2 Encore.

As the M2 Encore (bundle) is about the same price as the Letus Ultimate (bundle), and as the specs on their web site don't surpass third party testimonials on what the Letus Ultimate can do (1/2000, f22, etc.) -- IS THERE ANYONE IN THIS FORUM WHO CAN TELL ME WHY I SHOULD GO WITH THE M2 Encore INSTEAD OF THE LETUS ULTIMATE?

Anyone used an M2 Encore? Anyone think it's better than a Letus Ultimate? Is there some great innovation I'm missing about the new M2 Encore that makes it the best 35mm adapter?
 
AGMedia said:
I guess this question could go in some other category -- but this question is about use with the HMC150.

I'm hours away from pulling the trigger on the Letus Ultimate with Zeiss primes for the HMC150 -- and I just clicked on a banner at this site for the "new" Redrock M2 Encore.

As the M2 Encore (bundle) is about the same price as the Letus Ultimate (bundle), and as the specs on their web site don't surpass third party testimonials on what the Letus Ultimate can do (1/2000, f22, etc.) -- IS THERE ANYONE IN THIS FORUM WHO CAN TELL ME WHY I SHOULD GO WITH THE M2 Encore INSTEAD OF THE LETUS ULTIMATE?

Anyone used an M2 Encore? Anyone think it's better than a Letus Ultimate? Is there some great innovation I'm missing about the new M2 Encore that makes it the best 35mm adapter?
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M2e and Letus Ultimate are two completely different animals, if you mean Extreme or Elite, that may closer in price, but the Ultimate by itself is $4,500.00

M2E is $2,000 by it self. Letus Ultimate is tried and true but in my opinion it is just too expensive , but so are Zeiss primes as well. If you have the cash Ultimate is fantastic,
M2E is fairly new and time will tell if it is the same league or close to it
Cheers
 
I haven't bought an adapter yet... but (and not to make it anymore difficult for you), why the Ultimate and not, say the Cinemek G35 or SGBlade?
 
Great point Mike, but i don't want to cross thread on this, too much i have a G35/EX1/EX3 and it's simply beautiful, SG BLADE is closer to the Ultimate in terms of flip module, and it has a spinning GG.
I think the Blade is a good contender if you were considering M2E.
 
DEPTH OF PHIL: My thanks for your response. When I looked at the M2 Encore bundle it was about $4000, and that was close enough to the price of an Ultimate bundle ($5300) that I assumed it was positioned to compete against the Ultimate. That you say it's designed to compete with the Elite/Extreme makes sense based on the stats they offered. My thanks!
 
Mike Harvey: Unless you or someone can change my mind (and I certainly welcome any money savings), the Ultimate can handle high shutter speeds (1/2000) and can be "stopped down" to f/22 -- allowing for deep focus footage (landscapes, scenery) that will match the look of the shallow focus footage (talking heads, creative elements, etc.). In theory, and I do mean "in theory," this means I can just leave the adapter on for an entire production, capture all matching footage, and easily switch lenses according to need.

My research up to this point has led me to believe, in terms of both function and results, that nothing will beat an Ultimate with Zeiss primes in the $5500 price range. And, of course, I can use these with any camera that comes along in the next few years.

That's my thinking. I don't claim it's "right," but that's where my research has led me. Again, I welcome any "better" ideas.
 
Sorry to bud in, but you are aware that the 5,500.00 price does not include lenses, that kit is $8,500.00. G35, M2e and Blade are all boasting low & high shutter speeds , but no one else has been able to stop down to f22. But will you do that often?

A M2e with Zeiss primes kit $5,400.00, A G35 with Zeiss primes kit $5,000.00 A SG BLADE with Zeiss primes kit $5,170.00 The link below is for Ultimate with Zeiss primes, the EX1 mount is a choice. It will come with a Nikon Mount and a PL mount i believe. For us with other cameras you will have to purchase their specific mount , Hope this helps!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/589204-REG/Letus35__LELT35UCEX1_Ultimate_Cine_Kit.html
 
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DEPTH OF PHIL: Yeah, I know... I didn't get out my budget for the purposes of this question. I'm not buying their Zeiss lens "kit" -- I'm handling the lenses separately because it's a better deal.

Mainly what I'm trying to avoid here are the fifteen to twenty-five thousand dollar lenses that plug into thirty thousand dollar cameras with a life expectancy of four years -- meaning that four years after buying the 30k camera the five thousand dollar cameras produce better images.

You are certainly correct about f/22 -- I may never go there. But, as you certainly understand, it's all about available options when in the field.

I do thank you for your thoughts and insights -- it's appreciated. My bottom line is that I'm not worked up over saving three thousand dollars. Instead, I'm looking for the best I can get in this price ballpark -- and I'm not sensing from your thoughts that the Letus Ultimate is a "mistake" in terms of function. Again, thank you!
 
In no way is the Ultimate a bad decision if you have the cash , it is the best adapter out there. But when the Red-Scarlett comes out and is readily availabe , 35 adapters will be become second hat, so with shooters using Nikons and lower cost adapters , they can shoot for a year or more and get that satisfaction for what they spent. But an investment of 5,000 or more on just an adapter , we all should realize technology is catching up and it's shelf life is running out.
So how much should or can we invest , and how much will we actually shoot in the next year and a half. Cheers
 
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THE DSLRs are already producing good results without the adapters and you get the benefit of a high res stills too and if you pick the Canon, it's full frame. For the kind of money you are talking about, you could get a killer DSLR kit with similar results and without all the setup time and light loss and what not. The adapter timeframe is limited at best.. Kind of how the p2store and firestore had their time, but not anymore.. Who wants to lump around those bricks when media is now affordable.
 
Being that I have all "L" glass Canon, due to being a still photographer way before video,
I will likely get the Canon dslr video solution the next purchasing go around.

Less than the price of what adapters are going for, I can get full 35mm frame dof, and a still camera to boot.

For events and long run stuff, I still have the Panasonic video cameras.
 
Hornet. I am pretty much thinking the same thing. I will use the 150s for run and gun stuff and where I'm bouncing around and shooting action sports and what not. The Canon will be for doing some narrative work, music videos, covert camera stuff and things like that.

I think a person would be hard pressed to see the advantages over an adapter after seeing some of the work that people are doing with the canon and also with the Panasonic and others. NOt to mention the ability to shoot some high res photos and make cash that way. Maybe even rent the camera and lenses out to people.


Guys.. this so exciting but hard to keep up with what's going on. Like today, I almost bought one of the new Sanyo waterproof HD camcorders for 400 bucks. It looks so cool and I could get so much use out of it with the kids and at theme parks and whatever. Just a great little crash cam and a cam to put on cars and bikes and wherever it might get some dirt or water. It's good to be in the revolution....
 
Valid point guys, we are considering picking up a GH1 or MKII for B Roll, On a film set, the adapters and larger size cameras have their place as cinematic tool with a craftsmen behind the lens.

Run and Gun, shoot something quick and poetic, DSLRs may have the leading edge especially at the price of yesterday's camcorders. God, call me old fashioned , i just got to shoot with something that feels like a feature film camera, there's nothing like that high of making a film! Cheers
 
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DOP... I understand that too for sure. When you get the rig around an DSLR it might have something akin to what you are also looking for. I read an interesting article where a DP opted to shoot with the Canon over the Red after being frustrated with its operation and the workflow. Either way, it's good to be a filmmaker.


I think in maybe a few months when the dust settles, there should be a shoot out with all of the DSLRS, and adatper makers and what not so we can see where it all stands. I personally have put my adapter plans on hold for sure cause of what has been developing. I also think it will be really interesting to see if Scarlett is a big bloated joke, or if it does deliver something... to someone.. at sometime.
 
DEPTH OF PHIL said:
But when the Red-Scarlett comes out and is readily availabe , 35 adapters will be become second hat, so with shooters using Nikons and lower cost adapters , they can shoot for a year or more and get that satisfaction for what they spent. Cheers
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When and if Red-Scarlett ever comes out and when and if you are on Mr. Jim's ViP list. I wouldn't hold my breath...many have.
I use a Brevis adapter, love it, it is affordable and has an impressive range of flexibility and accessories available for it. I don't use the flip option offered I use the flip in my HMC LCD screen, nor the Zeiss lenses but have both a Nikon and Canon mount for mine. I found great glass at good prices in a variety of places including Marketplace on DVXUSER. I also have a Nikon to 4/3 lens adapter and a Canon to 4/3 for my GH1 which I hope arrives soon. So the glass gets used no matter what.
 
BUT... The 5D has two HUGE problems:

1 - Moire - moire everywhere - moire where you least expect it. An Ex1 with any adapter (or without one..) will NEVER moire

2 - No 24p Yes you can use Twixtor to get 24 p, but it's a pain.

3 - Weaker codec than EX1. (Not a huge problem, but a problem.)
 
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I suspect these anti-adapter people are correct -- in about five years -- meaning they’re ahead of the time. Assuming that Red leads the way (you know, that camera for which we’ve all been waiting to be released for at least two years), it’s inevitable that manufacturers will produce affordable HD (and better) cameras with interchangeable lenses. As distribution methods/channels for video explode in the next decade -- so too will demand for affordable professional imaging solution.

For the moment -- those very early stage DSLR cameras that offer some form of video option in no way replace pro HD cameras. In other words -- filming and producing a complete documentary with that Canon would be devastatingly difficult/inconvenient -- if not impossible.

My issue is that I need to be in London ready to film in three weeks. Accordingly -- the Letus Ultimate and Zeiss lenses should be here by Thursday. I’m sure I’ll have test videos posted on Vimeo by next week -- and we’ll discover together whether or not the Letus Ultimate/HMC150 combination is a viable production solution.
 
Robert Ruffo said:
BUT... The 5D has two HUGE problems:

1 - Moire - moire everywhere - moire where you least expect it. An Ex1 with any adapter (or without one..) will NEVER moire

2 - No 24p Yes you can use Twixtor to get 24 p, but it's a pain.

3 - Weaker codec than EX1. (Not a huge problem, but a problem.)
Click to expand...

Moiré wow I always spelled it moray , Oops, anyway EX1 does moiré on small lines or pattern in fabrics , brick buildings Take the detail off on the setting menu, it will help.
But I have yet to see a HD camera that is clean of this flaw, especially when downconverted for SD - NTSC, it is inherint in this format. But that said, DSLRs still have some weening and updates needed before you can just start comparing them on an equal scale.
Cheers
 
I think that the GH1 is changing things more rapidly and 5 years might be way too long to think that the adapter market has. For the price of one of these, you can get yourself the GH1, some nice glass and be off rocking and rolling.

I was ready to buy an adapter but I don't think so after seeing the quality thats already coming out of the cameras. It's also hard to be shooting with a .95 lens with no light loss that you'd get with these adapters...

I think it's a dead market.. kind of like the P2store became and such when the cards got bigger... You'll see something else rocking out this year and already I've seen footage that rivalled the EX1 in every level...
 
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