FS7: Question to RED, or higher end camera owners on their FS7 interest.

[morgan_moore]

Here is a curve to 'normalise' a HG - start ramping up the contrast at 60 and then knee off the very top to hold the highs.

The fact you must design that curve yourself and that it is extremely non linear so exposure changes will throw the image right off makes consistent grading of HG a challenge.

With Log Sony have (finally unlike the dead duck Slog1) given out the normalisation curve rather than have you attempt to draw it yourself!

S

 

[Lenilenapi]

Hey Sam, do you have that chart with all of the hypergammas?

 

[morgan_moore]

check google images 'sony hypergamma' HG7 did not present to my casual hunt.

S

 

[starcentral]

cameramanben can surely plot them, or has already. try him on dvx or sony forums.

 

[Lenilenapi]

Ha - I'm not asking Ben to do anything extra .

 

[starcentral]

I know a few of you guys interested in the FS7 are coming from RED and I’d like to hear your reasons for getting an FS7.

Or even the guys who own higher end cameras like the F55 or F5, do you feel like you’re making your money back on it? Would you plop down $40K again, knowing what you know now? Would the FS7 change your decision in owning a RED/F5/F55?

I was originally all set to get the FS7, then I started thing about getting a Dragon Epic (near $37K for a basic kit). Obviously, way more expensive. I can “Almost” justify it and that’s a hard place to be, because if I were further back on my DP path, I would not get it; and if I were further along, I probably would get it. Being “Almost” there, leaves a bit of uncertainty. I do motion graphics so I can swing it financially, but it’s still expensive.

For my better jobs (a couple gigs a month), I shoot Network projects (decent TV budgets) that usually involve some type of VFX or motion graphics which is where the RED would be really handy - RAW and high resolution. Mainly, I could really benefit from RAW because these jobs have a lot of VFX going into it. The 7Q RAW is uncompressed so way too big and the Sony Dock solution for the FS7 is just ridiculous.

I’m starting to think it might just be better to upgrade to the FS7 and rent the Dragon when needed since it’s so cheap to rent in LA. The FS7 just isn't quite enough for what I need (RAW), but the Dragon is quite enough on the money department!

But yeah, I wanted to get the RED / Higher end camera guy’s opinions and insight before my final decision.

Thanks

Now that RED Raven has been announced, Gene what conclusion/decision have you reached?

 

[Gene Sung]

Now that RED Raven has been announced, Gene what conclusion/decision have you reached?

I put down my deposit the day Raven became available. But won't come till February.

Alexa Mini was originally my first choice, best image, but just too expensive and the body design on that camera is pretty bad (Easily blocked vent on the back, no mounting points and difficult audio work arounds = monster rigging). Amira is awesome, but I need something that goes on Gimbals easily and being able to shoot RedCode is nice in that price range. I really was going to get a Weapon, but it's $45K for a decent package and then the Raven was announced, so I'd be saving over $30,000. Plus, I have no real need for 6K. 4K is plenty for me.

Jarred Land mentioned that they are coming out with a "Scarlet Weapon" to fill the huge price gap between the $6K Raven and the $34.5K Weapon. That's the camera that many people want, body somewhere in the $16K to $20K range. So I'll probably just use the Raven till the mid-range model comes out, then sell the Raven and get the next one up. Plus, Raven is taking deposits and Weapon Magnesium (the cheapest Weapon) doesn't even have pre-orders yet, so who knows when that's coming out. I bet they announce the mid-range "Scarlet Weapon" camera at the next NAB.

Going to keep my FS7 for ENG type jobs and the Raven for the more cinematic jobs. I think the cost between keeping the FS7 and getting a working Raven is around $22K, maybe a bit more. That's pretty incredible to have two great (and different cameras) for that price. I bet a decent C300 II package will be around $18K to $19K, so paying a few thousand more and having two different cameras is an amazing luxury.

I think for ENG / low budget jobs, the 10-bit and LC709a will make the FS7 perfect for years to come. Amazing time for camera geeks.

 

[starcentral]

Sounds like a good plan, and you've got things all figured out.

I was originally on a RED path before I changed my mind for the F55 2.5 years ago, but now I'm thinking to get a Raven next year and see how that goes and how I like it. I already work on RED footage so know what the image is like, etc.. I'm also not so worried about form factor so much, so the Amira, used Alexa, and maybe Alexa mini is also on my radar.

 

[Ben Scott]

I might hold off to see what the Scarlet Weapon is capable of. S35mm 4k at lower compression would make it the... ahem... Weapon of choice for me .

 

[Gene Sung]

I might hold off to see what the Scarlet Weapon is capable of. S35mm 4k at lower compression would make it the... ahem... Weapon of choice for me .

The Raven is only $6K. For a Red, that practically them giving you a camera and all the accessories will go to the future Scarlet Weapon. I figure, when you upgrade you can sell it for $4K and you lose $2K. That's very little money in terms of cameras. Since you can't even pre-order a Mag Weapon, the Scarlet Weapon will probably be at least 1 year out. Might as well shooting for much of that time.

I do wish it were Super 35mm but the according to Red guy Phil Holland, the crop in relation to FF35 is 1.76. The 4K Black Magic is 1.7 which is just a little more than 7D. Nobody seems to complain much about those cameras.

I guess with how cheap it costs, there no real reason to wait.

 

[Ben Scott]

I sold a Red to buy an FS7. I need to make it work for me financially as well but I don't really have a huge problem with if it costs a bit more. My FS7 setup has so far cost me around about £12,000 when it would have been quite usable after spending about £8,000.

As no Red will ever really be an ultimate lightweight run and gun camera I would probably keep the FS7 so I'd want my other camera to be a different beast altogether. with as few compromises as possible in pursuit of image quality.

That said a lot could happen between now and the Raven release, including the FS8 being launched or my clientbase changing and the Raven being more sellable.