Question to all Andromeda users

M

maniero

Well-known member
As the title says I pointing this to all Andromeda users:
I know the reel-stream homepage says that SculptorHD need at least 1.25GHz of CPU speed, but does anyone have experience if the software will also work on a system with 1GHz or even less (876Mhz...) I thought the critical point is the USB transfer rate and this should be the same on lower speed G4 models for example.
Any help is appreciated.
Best regards,
Manfred
 
The software has to do more than just capture the stream via USB though.

It conforms it into a useable file format and can apply looks to the footage as well. I think you would at least need a 1Ghz or more CPU. It may work with a slower computer, but your render times are going to increase a lot.
 
Hello maniero

My understanding is, that PPC systems utilize the CPU in some fashion while transferring data over the USB bus, and G4's and below used USB 1.0/1.1 (at least the last version prior to the Intel processor switch by Apple - don't quote me on that though). The G5/PPC platform has USB 2.0, however it's speed was constrained by the CPU for some reason. The Intel platforms have USB 2.0, can retrieve data at the full bandwidth of USB 2.0 and are not constrained by the processor.

SculpterHD requires USB 2.0. What will happen while capture using the PPC platform is this: After SculpterHD recognizes the camera (assuming the computer is capable of USB 2.0), you'll see the image in the viewer - but when you hit record, it will start to drop frames, and after a few seconds the capture will halt and inform you that it can't capture without dropping frames. However, a G4 can be used with SculpterHD for rendering captured Andromeda footage, so - it's still useful - just not for capture though.

It works well using the Intel platform for capture (a MacMini works fine).
 
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Hi muonwave,
thanks for your reply. So do you think a Powerbook 15" G4 with 1.33Ghz, 1 Gb of Ram and USB2.0 will do the job for capturing and rendering? I only ask, because I read on the real-stream homepage that this would meet the min. specs (not the best solution, but if it would work, I could save some money...).
I thought about getting a mac mini as well, but as I need to do some "in the field" work from time to time I need a mobile solution. I read about a guy making a portable mini (MMP I think), but I wouldn't even have any idea how to power the mac mini with batteries...
Thanks for your help.
 
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maniero, I don't think so.

From those I've talked to and what's been posted to the Reel-Stream forum, there appears to be an issue with any PPC platform in regards to the full USB 2.0 bandwidth. I haven't used the laptop you're suggesting, so can only assume at this point. The issue centers around the PPC CPU "lending a hand" in negotiating dataflow over the USB 2.0 bus, which has the effect of varying the bandwidth - not keeping the bandwidth constant where it needs to be. The Intel doesn't try to "help", and is able to maintain a constant bandwidth - whereas the PPC fluctuates, depending on what's running in the background, graphics needs and what not. At least - that's what I've read (it is possible I've been mistaken).

Keep in mind that you'll need to use a bus-powered fire wire (800) drive as well to use as your capture disk. It is highly inadvisable to use the system internal disk as the capture disk - it fills up to over 1.8 GB a minute during capture (and that doesn't include render or dailies output). At any rate, external drives and a lot of storage space is a requirement you won't be able to live without. These captures can get quite large, and you don't want to use a USB 2.0 connected drive (using USB to power the drive however, does work).

A portable battery system, obtainable from Sears for around $40 here in the U.S. is a possibility (and one I'm opting for myself), which also comes with a built in emergency radio and emergency lights. Some are able to jump-start cars. Not expensive - but may be more difficult to find where you're at.

You should also consider an active USB 2.0 cable (or two) - which can extend the camera away from the capture computer for quite a distance (around 40 feet I think). The laptop you have now isn't a total loss to the system however. You can still render your captures if you capture to an external drive.

My configuration is a macMini, 2.0 GHz, with an external LaCie drive, and two spare USB powered fire wire laptop drives with enclosures I'd gotten for around $16 or so. I use both (depending on need), where the macMini either connected to a 22" monitor on a rolling cart, or an 8" touch screen monitor mounted to the camera. The camera mounted touch screen monitor - while a useable solution, is not optimal. It will switch between the composite out from the DVX, and the macMini video out, allowing you to see what's being captured via SculpterHD within it's viewer - however it's somewhat small to be useful, and using the touch screen is frustrating if trying to manipulate objects on the screen with a pen (and we haven't discussed a keyboard yet).

Do you have an Andromeda, or are you in the process of acquiring one?
 
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Actually, I'm not near the systems now and can't tell - but if I'm not mistaken, the software doesn't come in a Universal image - I think it's Intel only. If I'm wrong, hopefully someone else will chime and and correct me.
 
thanks muonwave.
I had the chance to buy a used (of course used as because no new one's are produced anymore as we all know...) for an (in my opinion) very good price. I don't got it in my hands yet, but it should arrive in a few days...
Unfortunately I can't ask my questions at the reel-stream forum, because I'm waiting for my account activation there for a few weeks now...
So I really appreciate your help.
I know that capturing to an internal drive is a no-go, and fortunately I have a FW 800 harddisc lying around here. So that won't be the problem.
Being a PC user I'm in need of a (portable) Mac for capturing and rendering. A friend of mine has a Powerbook with the above mentioned specs, that he would give to me for a good price, but as you said, this isn't an option. So I think I will look for a Mac mini (probably a used one from eBay...) and try to make it portable... I have a quite good 8" monitor I could use (at least in the beginning). And a keyboard and stuff shouldn't be a problem to get, too. So the biggest problem that I see in using the Mac mini is the power source. Do you have a link to the battery you were talking about? And I think one must do some modification to the plugs to fit it to the Mac mini. (the MMP maker also wrote about a DC/DC converter...) Unfortunately I'm not very good in DIY stuff...
I hope there will be any way to make my setup "mobile". Don't get me wrong, it doesn't have to go on "run&gun" style work, but it might be used in places, where no power source is reachable...
Thanks a lot for your input so far and do you know if there are any special requirements to the Mac mini or will every mini do the job? Sorry for asking those dumb questions, but untill now I had no experience with Mac's and every PC system I owned till now worked well out of the box and I never had to go deep into the technical "dimension"...
 
maniero said:
thanks muonwave.
I had the chance to buy a used (of course used as because no new one's are produced anymore as we all know...) for an (in my opinion) very good price. I don't got it in my hands yet, but it should arrive in a few days...
Unfortunately I can't ask my questions at the reel-stream forum, because I'm waiting for my account activation there for a few weeks now...
So I really appreciate your help.
Click to expand...

I did as well (I'm the third owner). I also understand about the Reel-Stream forum - I've been waiting since November of last year for my account to be activated, and I expect it won't be. It's a shame of course, because neither you or I can post and ask questions there. I'm pleased to help out a fellow Andromeda user where I can.

Power is probably the most frustrating aspect of the Andromeda - specifically for the external computer/monitor/drive. Here's a link for several, and it looks like the price has gone up a bit: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-alias=automotive&field-keywords=portable%20battery%20charger&page=1

When juggling all of the power cords, keep in mind that many of them have a "wall wart" or worse, a converter in the center of the power cable (power cable from the computer plugs into the external power supply, which you plug a power cable from that into the wall). With my setup, I have three to four power cables, each with a power-box in the center (which means you may have 3-4 feet of cable before you start to drag around the wall-worts or power-boxes). I had to solve that by combining all the cables into a center-fed box, mounting the box to the tripod (or to rails) then routing power out the other end of the box - made it much easier to work with the camera that way.

As for the macMini requirements - should be an Intel (not the PPC version), at least 2.0GHz, w/USB 2.0 & fire wire, should work with 1/2 GB of RAM, but more is better.

Do you have rails?
 
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Thanks muonwave, your input helped me a lot so far. Yes I have rails from my 35mm adapter. I will look deeper into the Mac minis and especially into the question of power... Oh and may I ask you which mobile external harddrive you use for capturing? I'm considering a Wiebetech toughtech XE 250Gb , a Lacie rugged 320Gb or a combo of a Macpower Daisy enclosure and a Samsung HM320Ji harddisk. Which of those solutions do you think would be the best? My main criterias were FW800 port, bus-powered and a min transfer rate of 28MB/s...Or is there anything else to take care of?
Thanks,
Manfred
 
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I have several configurations that can be used, depending on need.

Configuration One:

Before I got the active USB extension/repeater cables, I used a powerpod from Redrock, and re-purposed it to hold the macMini at the back end of the rails, to the rear of the camera. The LaCie drive I use has the same form-factor as the macMini (I'm sorry, I don't know the nomenclature of that model), 250GB and connects easily to it with a mini FW cable (about 3 inches long), and stays put on top of the macMini (the macMini is upside down at this point, so it fits almost like a docking station). This is not a bus-powered drive - it uses a power cable connected to a power converter in the center of the cable, which is plugged into A/C power. Since I was powering the macMini via A/C power anyways, I decided to use spiral cable-wrap to build a single power cable for the rig (a couple of 11 foot spiral cable wraps can be had here for around $5.) This let me combine the A/C power cables for the camera, the macMini, an external focus monitor, and the LaCie drive into one thick cable, with the wall-warts and center power converters all contained in a box, and a single power cable (runs up to 150 feet if need be) out the other end.

The 1st AC will also have to operate the SculpterHD program using a the touch-screen monitor, (the focus monitor mentioned above). It has a button that allows me to switch from composite (to check framing and to give a reasonable guess on focus), to the macMini's video out where you can press "record" on the touch screen.

This is not an optimal configuration.

I don't have access to a metal-shop that could build an enclosure which would contain both, so if I need to attach the camera to a shoulder support system (I'm using a prototype from Studio4, (the IndieFocus folks ) that has 30" carbon rods), the weight of the macMini and external drive, acts as a counter balance at the rear to the Letus Extreme 3+ pounds without lens, plus the lens support, Follow Focus & mattebox on the front of the camera - giving me some amount of stability.

You'll still need someone to assist you with the cables (but, you'd need that anyways for audio if you were shooting run&gun with XLRs plugged into the camera, to keep you from tripping over the cables). If you use a 35mm & Follow Focus as well, you'll probably need another crew member (1st AC) for that - and it'll get crowded kind of fast.

As I said, this is mainly if I don't use an active USB extender (which I do use), AND intend to use the 35mm adapter with all the trimmings on the front end - and specifically - only to offset the weight of all that stuff on the front end of the camera.

It can be attached by (cough... ) gaffers tape... (cough... ), which is ugly, and has the potential of damaging the computer or drive if the tape-job fails. This is certainly a "jury-rigged" setup - but as an alternative, if you know someone who has access to a metal shop, some type of nice looking and well engineered enclosure could be designed and built that attaches the macMini w/hard drive to rails (best option by far).

Configuration Two:

This configuration is not "run & gun", but is perfectly acceptible for on-set use. I have several systems to hold the camera; crane, slider, tripod, dolly(s). I also have a roll-around I use for a 22" LCD monitor. The roll-around holds the macMini, with keyboard and trackball mouse, and all are hooked up as a mobile (barely) computer system. The active USB cable plugs into the macMini from the camera, and allows the camera to move up to 40 feet on a dolly, tripod w/dolley, crane, etc., from the computer (easiest configuration and used 95% of the time). The same power configuration is used for both of these configurations - and both can be used outdoors on a remote site with an power system used for camping or recharging a car battery (as long as it has an A/C outlet built in).

The bus-powered drives I'd built myself - using enclosures from Frys (an electronics store here) - has a USB connector which plugs into a USB port on the macMini - used to power the drive (160GB laptop drive), and a Firewire connector for the actual drive mounting and data transfer. I use two (only one at a time, ... think spare drive). Main issue with a bus-powered drive is heat. It builds up heat way faster than an externally powered drive - specifically during capture. Even when not capturing, it builds up a tremendous amount of heat, which you'll have to engineer some solution to remove, else other problems occur (like losing an hours worth of footage).

I'll write up my other configurations in my next post, and see if I can dig out another camera to take pictures of my rig in different configurations (I can't do this tonight, as I've got a previous engagement).

Hope this helps you somewhat.
 
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