Question RE use of field mixer

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nick_m_777

Member
Hi,

I have an HVX200 and have run into situations where I wished I had an extra channel for another mic. And I am also finding out that camera pre amps are not always the greatest compared to a good mixer. So I'm looking for a good 3 channel field mixer. Have pretty much narrowed it down to Sound Devices 302 or PSC DV PROMIX 3. I get the impression that the SD is the way to go except for the price. But anyway, what I'm wondering is this:

How is the best way for me to give myself as many audio options in post as possible? In other words, if I run 2 lavs and a shotgun into my mixer, mix them all into one mix, and then just run both channels to my HVX200, I will be stuck with my mix of all 3. I have never worked with a field mixer before (only used the audio ins on my HVX) and I know it probably seems like a simple question but I wondered if there is something I had not thought of and wanted to make sure the mixer I get has the features I need. Do you just pan the lavs to one side and the shotgun to the other side then run left into channel 1 on camera and right on channel 2?

I just wish there was some way to override the built in mic and tap in on channels 3 and 4! That would be super.

Thanks for your help!
 
I'd go with the Sound Devices. It will hold resale value. I've used PSC mixers and never really liked them as much.

As for splits, and please note that this really requires a dedicated sound person to mix:

For a shotgun and two lavs, send the shotgun out to the left (Ch 1) and the lavs out to the right (Ch 2). The lavs will need to be actively mixed, especially if the actors are close together, to avoid phasing issues.

For a single subject, boom and lav, and split them out.

For a single subject on either boom or lav only, send it out to both (pan center) and set your second channel to record a few dB lower on the right/Ch 2 than on the left/Ch 1. Because these mixers only have hard L-C-R switching as opposed to rotary pan control, that may need to be done with your camera's level controls. (For mixers like the Shure FP33 and the SD 442 that have rotary pan, the safety channel can be created by panning slightly to the left, or to about 10:00.)

Again, when you get into a situation where there are mics being mixed together on the fly, especially if you have a boom running on top of two lavs, you need to have a dedicated mixer. And honestly, you need to have a separate, dedicated boom op so that the mixer can concentrate on the mix.
 
Good info. Thanks! Too bad there isn't some simple solution for recording multiple channels on my HVX so the chances of a disastrous accident from bad mixing would be mitigated. The only thing I can think of is going to some sort of multi channle portable audio recorder but then I would be entering an entirely different ball game that with complexities that would require even more personnel and equipment. So I guess the best option is to keep it to 2 channels as much as possible and only go with 3 when absolutely necessary?
 
Keep in mind that your goal should be to have your boom channel used as much as possible in the final product, so the lavs are more of a backup in most cases.

And if you set the 302 full scale tone to -3dBFS at the HVX, the limiters will give you 60dB of headroom before you clip the signal. That's a lot, and the SD limiters are excellent quality.

Phasing on lavs can be a pain, but if the boom can be close to the actors and your levels are reasonable, you likely won't use them anyway.
 
I second the vote for the 302. I love mine and could still sell it for close to what I paid 4 years ago. I'll never sell though!!! HA HA.

I also second what C2V said about mixing 2 lavs + 1 boom into 2 channels.
 
Gohanto said:
And if you set the 302 full scale tone to -3dBFS at the HVX, the limiters will give you 60dB of headroom before you clip the signal. That's a lot, and the SD limiters are excellent quality.
Click to expand...

Since I've not used a field mixer on a camera shoot before, I guess I'm not familiar with some of the terminology. Are you talking about peaking my audio test tone at ??db on the mixer and then adjusting the HVX audio levels to -3db? If you don't mind please elaborate just a bit so I'm clear on the best way to set audio levels when running into the HVX. And also on how the limiters play into this. I have used the limiters on the HVX, are they any good or should I turn them off when I'm using the mixer?

Many thanks!
 
nick_m_777 said:
Since I've not used a field mixer on a camera shoot before, I guess I'm not familiar with some of the terminology. Are you talking about peaking my audio test tone at ??db on the mixer and then adjusting the HVX audio levels to -3db? If you don't mind please elaborate just a bit so I'm clear on the best way to set audio levels when running into the HVX. And also on how the limiters play into this. I have used the limiters on the HVX, are they any good or should I turn them off when I'm using the mixer?

Many thanks!
Click to expand...


I use the dvx and like to leave the limiters on, plus the limiters on the 302, because I've noticed that when they're off it will start to distort before hitting 0db. This is especially helpful if you're booming and mixing at the same time. I'm always careful to make sure the dvx limiters aren't kicking in, (unless it's a surprise attack) because they aren't that good, but better than distorted audio, or levels that are too low if you have a dynamic scene.

I also think that setting the tone from the 302 to be at -3db on the camera is WAY too hot, and will lead to lots of trouble. I go for -10 to -12, then if it's just 1 mic put the right channel to -18 to -20 for a safety. I can't tell you how many times I've been saved by this. Always in those scenes that are quiet quiet quiet, then someone blows up.
 
Tim, there's two types of tone out of the 302. 0dBu (the standard) and full scale (+20dBu).

The industry standard is setting tone (0dBu) out of the 302 to -20dBFS at the recorder. And honestly if you're clipping the DVX and need its own limiters, that's an indication to re-check your gain staging. Either lower the 302 output or have the limiters engage at a lower threshold level.

The -3dBFS is only if you're setting tone from the FULL SCALE tone, which is much hotter than the 0 dBu tone.

(And just a note to anyone reading that doesn't understand dBu vs. dBFS. dBFS is digital sound where 0dBFS is CLIPPED and useless. All digital sound is -0.1 or below. dBu is analog and usually lives inbetween -10dBu and +20dBu on most pro gear, but that's just general settings)
 
The wendt x4 or x5 is also an excellent mixer and can be found used sometimes. The PSC MS4+ is teh same as the Wendt x4. I saw one used at trewaudio.com for $650.

The way I used to set up an x4 was to have each channel tuned a certain way before hand. One channel with a pad, one without etc. Basically had one channel that was always used for shotguns and other for 2 for lavs only and pre-panned so I just had to plug the XLR(s) into the right input(s) so I didn't have to mess with settings on the day. Make sense?
 
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