Portergold
Member
What is the best workflow working with HVX footage shot in 720P and editing in EdiusPro4 broadcast, do you work with the native format shot with the cam or convert to the HQ codec?
JP
JP
Question about HVX and Edius
- Thread starter Portergold
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
Forget converting to anything. Shoot the footage, import it and edit it. Even straight off the card; I've done four streams of 1080 in realtime in EDIUS right off the card.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Yep. Just edit it. Works like a charm. Copy it to your HDD first (if you have decent ones), or do like Barry said, and edit straight off the card, without even having to spend time transferring footage.
Jason
Jason
Portergold
Member
Thanks for the info. Its tempting to go for an HVX except for the restrictions in record times.
JP
JP
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Those restrictions are temporary. Cards will get bigger, cheaper, et cetera, et cetera.
In the meantime, you have other options if you absolutely need long, uninterrupted record times. Currently available is the firestore. Or, you can record direct to laptop using EDIUS, or DV Rack HD 2.0. And, the Cineporter is supposed to be available sometime this summer.
2 8 gig cards at 720p/24pn is 41 minutes. That's not too shabby. I have not really come into a situation, yet, that I felt I really needed anything longer than that. Just offload and go at it again.
Plus with the ability to immediately review and delete any clips, you can essentially have only the useable footage from a shoot on your cards, at the end of the day, which will save you time in post as well.
But, of course there are situations when you may need those long record times. If you do, there are interim options available. But, I consider them to be interim. When p2 cards get larger, the true benefits of this technology and tapeless workflow are really going to start being realized.
But, those using EDIUS, are reaping many of the benefits of p2 already.
Long response, I know
*Oh, and by the way - I noticed you are from Australia. I believe they are now doing the free 8 gig p2 card rebate there as well.
Jason
In the meantime, you have other options if you absolutely need long, uninterrupted record times. Currently available is the firestore. Or, you can record direct to laptop using EDIUS, or DV Rack HD 2.0. And, the Cineporter is supposed to be available sometime this summer.
2 8 gig cards at 720p/24pn is 41 minutes. That's not too shabby. I have not really come into a situation, yet, that I felt I really needed anything longer than that. Just offload and go at it again.
Plus with the ability to immediately review and delete any clips, you can essentially have only the useable footage from a shoot on your cards, at the end of the day, which will save you time in post as well.
But, of course there are situations when you may need those long record times. If you do, there are interim options available. But, I consider them to be interim. When p2 cards get larger, the true benefits of this technology and tapeless workflow are really going to start being realized.
But, those using EDIUS, are reaping many of the benefits of p2 already.
Long response, I know
*Oh, and by the way - I noticed you are from Australia. I believe they are now doing the free 8 gig p2 card rebate there as well.
Jason
Portergold
Member
The problem is the price of getting into the gear, over $3000 for a Firestore and from what I can gather over $2000 for the 8 gig card, that is some serious money compared to a $12 tape!! Then there is the matter of safely storing all that wonderful footage somewhere after the shoot, maybe RevPro?
Don't get me wrong, there are a huge amount of things I really like about the HVX, its just the sheer expense of it all for someone like me who does everything from start to finish that is off putting.
JP
Don't get me wrong, there are a huge amount of things I really like about the HVX, its just the sheer expense of it all for someone like me who does everything from start to finish that is off putting.
JP
hvx_germanboy
Well-known member
i am not here to do business for panasonic, but you wount pay 2000 dollar(maybe aussi, dont know how much it is..) for 1 8GB card, second-prices SHOULD come down(soon i hope) and you will get a special deal if you purchase your HVX now at an official dealer(which is 1 8GB card for free i guess...i havent been so lucky...!
Yes..it is all expensive, but worth it mostly..id never go back to tape, or go HDV...never..!
Yes..it is all expensive, but worth it mostly..id never go back to tape, or go HDV...never..!
Barry_Green
Moderator
Aussie cameras come with a free 8GB card if you buy it by (I think) March 31.
The funny thing is that even though the costs seem to get more prohibitive as you have longer shooting times, that's really where you start to see the most gains from file-based technology as well!
For example, shooting 2 hours on HDV tape... In the end maybe only half of that footage is worthwhile. In a file-based system, you can review in-between shots and delete stuff that you don't need.
Of course deleting stuff is sometimes a bad thing, sort of molding history in a way. This is why they told us we had to use pen for our journals in physics class. They wanted us to always remember what we did - even our mistakes.
Brandon
For example, shooting 2 hours on HDV tape... In the end maybe only half of that footage is worthwhile. In a file-based system, you can review in-between shots and delete stuff that you don't need.
Of course deleting stuff is sometimes a bad thing, sort of molding history in a way. This is why they told us we had to use pen for our journals in physics class. They wanted us to always remember what we did - even our mistakes.
Brandon
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Not to mention the fact that the dvcpro hd codec is MUCH more editor friendly. It's very efficient and not near as demanding on your system.
Jason
Jason
Portergold
Member
So what happens when you hit the pause button on the HVX? Does it create a new file with unique timecode etc or does it behave like a regular tape based camera?
How are most people attaching the P2 cards to a PC is there an adapter? or can you capture/transfer from the camera via firewire? I could probably just do a search via the forum but while I have you here I may as well ask.
Just to explain my position, I have a JVC HD101 cam and am finding it quite difficult to manage because of all the outdoor work I do (setting up etc because I am a one man band) whilst the cam aint perfect I still love the imagery coming from it thanks to the lens etc, however I also need a second cam to run in conjunction with the JVC that could shoot in the same format but save myself having to do two takes because a lot of what I do is not scripted (more fly by the seat of your pants type work)
The HVX could fit the bill due to the ability to shoot in 720P plus it is more a handheld with optical image stabilisation which the JVC isn't. I currently own a Sony A1p which is going to cause me no end of hassles in post due to interlacing and also a more video look compared to the JVC (colours are ridiculous).
I am about to invest in an NX card with HD expansion kit (more expense) and if I decided to go the HVX then will have to look at Edius broadcast as well.
Then if I decide to go the HVX it sounds like it will outshine the JVC so once again another dilema as the poor old pocket book is not plump by any means.
I deliver to DVD at the moment, but took the plunge to HDV for archival reasons ect (I also wanted to go full 16:9). How does the HVX footage compare to the JVC after burning to DVD, does the colour space have that much of an impact?
Finally is the file size of say a minute of 720p footage shot with the HVX similar in size to an equivalent duration file shot with the JVC then converted to HQ?
JP
How are most people attaching the P2 cards to a PC is there an adapter? or can you capture/transfer from the camera via firewire? I could probably just do a search via the forum but while I have you here I may as well ask.
Just to explain my position, I have a JVC HD101 cam and am finding it quite difficult to manage because of all the outdoor work I do (setting up etc because I am a one man band) whilst the cam aint perfect I still love the imagery coming from it thanks to the lens etc, however I also need a second cam to run in conjunction with the JVC that could shoot in the same format but save myself having to do two takes because a lot of what I do is not scripted (more fly by the seat of your pants type work
)The HVX could fit the bill due to the ability to shoot in 720P plus it is more a handheld with optical image stabilisation which the JVC isn't. I currently own a Sony A1p which is going to cause me no end of hassles in post due to interlacing and also a more video look compared to the JVC (colours are ridiculous).
I am about to invest in an NX card with HD expansion kit (more expense) and if I decided to go the HVX then will have to look at Edius broadcast as well.
Then if I decide to go the HVX it sounds like it will outshine the JVC so once again another dilema as the poor old pocket book is not plump by any means.
I deliver to DVD at the moment, but took the plunge to HDV for archival reasons ect (I also wanted to go full 16:9). How does the HVX footage compare to the JVC after burning to DVD, does the colour space have that much of an impact?
Finally is the file size of say a minute of 720p footage shot with the HVX similar in size to an equivalent duration file shot with the JVC then converted to HQ?
JP
Jason Ramsey
Admin
When you hit the pause button, you stop recording. The next time you start, you create a new clip.
Yes, you could search But, here's a few. There are several ways to offload. Via firewire/usb from the camera to the computer (though a bit slower). Many people do it this way.
You can buy a pcmcia slot for your desktop (like one offered from www.spec-comm.com). You can use your laptops pcmcia slot. With the pmcia slots you can just stick the card in there, and edit straight off the card, or offload your footage to your editing drives. It takes 4-5 minutes per 8 gig card.
Depending on your NLE (yes with EDIUS) you can live capture via firewire as well.
An 8 gig card will hold 20-21 minutes of 720p/24pn footage, if that gives you an idea of size. 1080 comes in at about a gig a minute.
For more info on speed of drives and size of drives required, here is a nice short article for you:
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/hdedit/
Jason
Yes, you could search
But, here's a few. There are several ways to offload. Via firewire/usb from the camera to the computer (though a bit slower). Many people do it this way. You can buy a pcmcia slot for your desktop (like one offered from www.spec-comm.com). You can use your laptops pcmcia slot. With the pmcia slots you can just stick the card in there, and edit straight off the card, or offload your footage to your editing drives. It takes 4-5 minutes per 8 gig card.
Depending on your NLE (yes with EDIUS) you can live capture via firewire as well.
An 8 gig card will hold 20-21 minutes of 720p/24pn footage, if that gives you an idea of size. 1080 comes in at about a gig a minute.
For more info on speed of drives and size of drives required, here is a nice short article for you:
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/hdedit/
Jason
Portergold
Member
Excellent read, only one problem, I noticed the DVCPRO 720p footage is only 960 x 720, what gives I though 720P was 1280 x 720?
How would this impact on a project if I was mixing ProHD and DCVPRO footage? Would Edius have to uprez the DVCPRO footage?
JP
How would this impact on a project if I was mixing ProHD and DCVPRO footage? Would Edius have to uprez the DVCPRO footage?
JP
Most HD acquisitions are line-scaled (or downsampled, if you prefer).
HDV 1080i - 1440x1080
HDCAM - 1440x1080
DVCPRO HD 720p - 1280x1080
DVCPRO HD 720p - 960x720
While downsampling initially sounds like a bad thing, and it is in a pure lab environment where you're getting pure, pristine 1920x1080 (or 1280x720) reoslution input, in the real world a lot depends on the actual equipment and shooting. The optics, CCD/CMOS size and engineering of the camcorder can do a lot to improve or degrade the resulting image, regardless of how many samples it's processing.
The same holds for digital still cameras as well. You can still end up with a 3MP or 5MP digital still camera that shoots better images than a 7MP digital still camera. It all depends and it's all related.
The final result is always a synergy of its component strengths (or weaknesses).
Brandon
HDV 1080i - 1440x1080
HDCAM - 1440x1080
DVCPRO HD 720p - 1280x1080
DVCPRO HD 720p - 960x720
While downsampling initially sounds like a bad thing, and it is in a pure lab environment where you're getting pure, pristine 1920x1080 (or 1280x720) reoslution input, in the real world a lot depends on the actual equipment and shooting. The optics, CCD/CMOS size and engineering of the camcorder can do a lot to improve or degrade the resulting image, regardless of how many samples it's processing.
The same holds for digital still cameras as well. You can still end up with a 3MP or 5MP digital still camera that shoots better images than a 7MP digital still camera. It all depends and it's all related.
The final result is always a synergy of its component strengths (or weaknesses).
Brandon
Whoops, to answer the question of what happens when you mix...
In the case of EDIUS, it depends on what project setting you're using. The standard EDIUS project settings work on the native sample resolutions (960x720 for DVCPRO HD 720p), which results in less to process (=better realtime performance), and no need to scale every clip.
If you have EDIUS hardware (NX, SP, etc), the hardware handles the line-scaling of the processed samples from EDIUS to achieve the proper HD resolution (1920x1080 or 1280x720). This process is done in hardware so we can have a high-precision scaling, unlike some other methods which result in fine detail shimmering, fading in and out on pans, or simply being lost in the final video output.
Brandon
In the case of EDIUS, it depends on what project setting you're using. The standard EDIUS project settings work on the native sample resolutions (960x720 for DVCPRO HD 720p), which results in less to process (=better realtime performance), and no need to scale every clip.
If you have EDIUS hardware (NX, SP, etc), the hardware handles the line-scaling of the processed samples from EDIUS to achieve the proper HD resolution (1920x1080 or 1280x720). This process is done in hardware so we can have a high-precision scaling, unlike some other methods which result in fine detail shimmering, fading in and out on pans, or simply being lost in the final video output.
Brandon
Jason Ramsey
Admin
It just has to do with pixel aspect ratios and stretching and all that. You can search around if you want reads on that stuff. Don't worry, it's the way it should be. When you output, you will output as 1280x720. Same with 1080. It'll come in as 1280x1080 or 1440x1080, or something. You'll send it out as 1920x1080.
EDIUS is also very good about working with multiple types of footage on the same project timeline. You can edit pal and ntsc on the same timeline too. Or mini dv 4:3 and 1080p on a dvcpro50 4:3 60i timeline. Whatever. Just bring in your footage in the project settings you want, edit, and output in the format or delivery medium you want.
EDIUS is also very good about working with multiple types of footage on the same project timeline. You can edit pal and ntsc on the same timeline too. Or mini dv 4:3 and 1080p on a dvcpro50 4:3 60i timeline. Whatever. Just bring in your footage in the project settings you want, edit, and output in the format or delivery medium you want.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Well, nevermind. Brandon beat me to it. Twice!
Portergold
Member
OK I will just assume the sampling method ect will produce a good image, however this does leave me a little confused, if I was to shoot equally with the JVC at 1280 x 720 and the Panny at 960 x 720 how should I set up my timeline, especially when you consider I would be delivering to DVD? Or would it be better to edit on an SD timeline? (sounds a bit like which come first the chicken or the egg? )
JP
)JP