GH4 Quality of GH4's 1080P modes vs. GH2 and GH3?

S

Shenan

Well-known member
Hi All, the general consensus seems to be that the GH4's 4K downconverted to 1080P looks much better than the GH4's own native 1080P modes. However, how bad are those native 1080P modes? Are they better, the same, or worse than the GH2 or the GH3? I already understand that 1080P rolling shutter on the GH4 is better than the GH3, which itself was better than the GH2, so that's good news. But how about sharpness, aliasing, moiré, motion rendering (stuttering), dynamic range, etc?

In other words, if you completely removed/ignored the 4K modes from the GH4, would it still produce better results than either the GH2 or the GH3 using just its 1080P modes, or do only the 4K modes improve on the previous models?

If there are already such comparisons around, please link them if you can. Thanks in advance!
 
Haven't done full testing... Dynamic range is better, color accuracy is better. I think I am seeing less moire.
 
I have the same questions of Shenan. I think that the pixel binning algoritm maybe not hava changes in the 1080p mode, so maybe is exactly like the GH3.
 
4k mode has no moire, None. But bad rolling shutter.

1080 24-60 is as sharp as GH3, same moire issues. You can now shoot extended tele mode at 60p (and at all bitrates).

1080 96p just looks bad. Great for certain effects, but a step backwards for resolution.
 
on paper it should look better as it has higher bit rates if I recall. But that's not always the case as we know it.
 
Hi

This is my question as well. There are some native 1080P clips here via Vimeo http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_GH4/ and some here for download http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_gh4_review/image_quality/

4K looks good played natively when downsized by most media players, but the advantages are largely lost as soon as it is rendered out to 1080P. I think some of the extra sharpness coming from 4K downsized to 1080P when playing back is the algorithms (depending and which is used) to downscale often creates a sharpening effect as a by product.

From the samples posted of the same scene I've dropped the 4K and the 1080P file onto a 1080P Vegas timeline then exported a frame from each. Have a look at the differences between 1080P native and 4K resized to 1080P.

Full size images here

https://imageshack.com/i/n84pu1p
https://imageshack.com/i/ndccqgp



Regards

Phil
 
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For most fast paced run and gun purposes (home videos, events, weddings etc), I wont need to shoot 4K so I would like to know if the GH3 resolution and moire is better than the GH3 and GH2. So far been getting conflicted forum posts saying it's about the same as GH3 if not worse?

Hi Phil, the attached images are hard to compare as the forum has resized them to 394x211?
 
Hi

Lammy said:
For most fast paced run and gun purposes (home videos, events, weddings etc), I wont need to shoot 4K so I would like to know if the GH3 resolution and moire is better than the GH3 and GH2. So far been getting conflicted forum posts saying it's about the same as GH3 if not worse?

Hi Phil, the attached images are hard to compare as the forum has resized them to 394x211?
Click to expand...

Right click and save as... you'll get the original images, these are PNGs so no additional JPEG artifacts added.

Regards

Phil
 
Right now as crazy as it may sound, I prefer the g6 of the gh4 for 1080p, the gh4 looks a lot like super sharp video, it's image it so digital and crisp I really don't think it's all that appealing to my eyes. Cancelled my order and waiting for a 4k image I like, putting the cash towards glass;-)
 
maranfilms said:
the gh4 looks a lot like super sharp video, it's image it so digital and crisp I really don't think it's all that appealing to my eyes.)
Click to expand...

Do you mean 4k downscaled or 1080p mode? I have heard "fake sharpness" thrown around lately. Can some one explain this exactly?
To the original question, I think I've read and seen enough to totally ignore 1080p mode on the GH4 when it comes. Might stick with Gh2.
 
Phil_D said:
4K looks good played natively when downsized by most media players, but the advantages are largely lost as soon as it is rendered out to 1080p
Click to expand...

Hi Phil,

Not trying to be a shirt-disturber, but I'm getting much better results when I down-rez the same 4K footage to 1080p using Sony Vegas Pro 11. I am down-rezzing using the free Cineform CODEC, which may have something to do with the results I am seeing, but on my end of things down-rezzed GH4 4K footage looks outstanding at 1080p when the Cineform CODEC is used. Here's a link to a frame grab from my down-rezzed 1080p version...

Frame from GH4 4K footage down-rezzed to 1080 using the free Cineform CODEC
 
When shooting 4k, then outputting the timeline to 1080 it is a sharper image than say stock 1080, I think for landscape stuff it's great as is for reframing, but as far as doing narrative stuff, it's too sharp, I don't care to see a black head on someones nose, it becomes distracting for me. I much prefer something with a less digital video sterile look, and like a softer higher dynamic range image. Maybe it's because I grew up on that kind of look with film. IDK.
 
maranfilms said:
When shooting 4k, then outputting the timeline to 1080 it is a sharper image than say stock 1080
Click to expand...

Depends on the camera. From what I've seen the Canon C100, Panasonic PX270, Sony PMW-300K / Sony F5 all produce this kind of high detail sharpness when shooting 1080p. They are giving you the full resolution of the 1080p format, which might be too sharp for some things, so you have to either filter when shooting or deal with this ultra-sharpness in post.

maranfilms said:
Maybe it's because I grew up on that kind of look with film. IDK.
Click to expand...

Some people still like the look of 1080p from the Panasonic HPX-170 or AF-100A cameras because they produce a "soft" 1080p image. ( my old HMC-150 has the same look )
 
Geesh...Panasonic just can't get it right, can they? 4K and 1080 just too damn sharp, and 96p unusably mushy.

Does anyone see telltale ringing artifacts, or is it "too high" a bitrate that extracts the most from the 1080 format? Seems You can always dumb down true sharpness without leaving tracks...not so much the other way, but I'm much more familiar doing this with stills.

All I know is that the down-converted 4K clips I've seen are amazing in detail, color and gradation - nothing looking pushed or faked - and the native 1080 not that far behind. But with the nature scene my main video interest I couldn't ask for more.
 
maranfilms said:
When shooting 4k, then outputting the timeline to 1080 it is a sharper image than say stock 1080...I much prefer something with a less digital video sterile look, and like a softer higher dynamic range image.
Click to expand...

I totally agree about dynamic range. But still trying to get my head around the "digital sharpness" complaints. Is it "digital" or just natural 1080 via oversampling (nyquist-shannon and all that) which nobody is used to seeing? Panasonic also reduced the OLPF (anti-aliasing filter) if that fits in somewhere. To put it another way, would the GH4's video be somehow more "digital" than say a 1080 still.

TheDingo said:
From what I've seen the Canon C100, Panasonic PX270, Sony PMW-300K / Sony F5 all produce this kind of high detail sharpness when shooting 1080p. They are giving you the full resolution of the 1080p format, which might be too sharp for some things, so you have to either filter when shooting or deal with this ultra-sharpness in post.( my old HMC-150 has the same look )
Click to expand...

That's just what I was wondering.
 
Hi all, a quick weigh-in here. As far as the GH4 being very sharp, the 4K to 1080 P image is in fact remarkably sharp, but is sharp without any artifacts or moire. This is an image that can be sharpened further, or blurred, as desired in post. The native 1080 P is another story. Moire patterns cannot be removed from fixed video., And that is still a danger in this mode. That said, the new, higher bit rates seem to function very well, and as long as you're not filming very sharp lines with wide angle lenses, the camera tends to looks quite good in 1080, and the 60p 200mbps mode is just what was needed. It's just not a true, superclean image like the 4K mode or like the current standards i.e. C100.

But this little camera is doing things bigger cameras simply cannot do. For hybrid shooters like myself, it is nothing short of the miracle. Let me see a nice still image from your Sony F35 that I can print to 24 x 36. Show me your overcranked C100 footage.

Every time we throw a camera on our shoulder or around our neck, we're walking out with something that is great at one thing and bad at another. Nothing is perfect. The G4 is very, very good at a lot of things. It's start up time is about one second, and it weighs next to nothing. The battery lasts almost unbelievably long.

There will be upstream color-like films shot with this camera. There will be great documentaries produced with it. There will be exquisite still images shot with it.
 
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