Quality of Fujinon XS8X4AS-XB8 ?

basspig

basspig

Veteran
I took delivery of the Fujinon XS8X4AS-XB8 this week and used it all day at the Kent Film Festival on Saturday.

Previously, I had been shooting with the stock lens that is included with the EX3. Those images are incredibly sharp, detailed and totally free of visible chromatic aberration.

When I installed the new Fujinon XS8X4AS-XB8 lens, the first test shots I did in the studio were grossly out of focus and then I realized that I have to perform a flange back adjustment. I did that, and the images looked okay in the viewfinder after that. However, after a day of shooting many of the same subjects that I'd shot earlier with the stock lens, I offloaded them to the NLE and watched them.

Right away, even in Clip Browser's small preview screen, I realized something was wrong. When viewed at the full pixel-to-pixel resolution in VLC Media Player, I confirmed that the images were soft, lacking in detail and were badly polluted with chromatic aberration, even near the center of the image area.

I did the flangeback procedure again in the studio, with a cleaner target, but I could not get any better clarity to the images. They looked fine in the viewfinder, but seen on a large monitor, the difference in sharpness between the new lens and the stock lens was dramatic. It was as if I'd shot the 'new lens' footage with a Canon HV20, not an XDCam.

I might expect this kind of problem with a cheap add-on wide converter lens, but with a $4,000 lens, I expect quality to equal or exceed the 'free' lens that came with my camera! I could have saved $3,500 and just got a cheap add-on lens and gotten the same results.

At this point, I'm pondering what to do. I plan to contact Sony and suggest the possibility that I got a defective lens, as I can't imagine all of these expensive lenses being THIS bad.


Here are some images, taken on different days, of the same general subject, with Detail OFF on both images. All camera settings the same, including 22° shutter, ND2 at f 1.9 and same picture profile.


Here's a 600-pixel crop of the stock lens:
picture.php



Here's a 600 pixel crop of the wide lens:
picture.php



Here are the original images:

Stock:
picture.php


Wide:
picture.php



Obviously, the differences are unmistakeable.

I think there MUST be something wrong with my lens. It can't be THIS bad. If it is, I'm sending it back to Sony and getting an el-cheapo wide converter lens instead. This is unacceptable at $4,000.

(After uploading these images, I can see that the CA problems are masked by the resampling and recompression that ocurred during upload, so these images don't display the problem nearly as well as the originals. There's craploads of CA on the originals and nothing is sharply in focus.
 
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Try this, put stock lens back on. Preform a camera reset, of settings. Do elec. backfocus. Remove lens, put on wide angle, preform back focus. Use a good focus chart target 10 ft. away. Then go into lens menu and make sure the lens is recognized and is now there, instead of stock lens. Save lens as new lens file. If you end up trying the back focus 10 times and no go, it might need to go in.

I have had this lens since it came out, and it should be very very sharp and work just fine. If all that doesn't work just send it back for repair. It's a great lens for the price, you can't beat it. "Just be patient" if it has to go in. I promise, you'll end up really liking this lens.

Don't go cheap on your camera or image by geting the wide angle adapters, it will handicap this great camera.
 
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I have read good things about this lens, so I naturally expected it to look sharp and free of CA fringing, but even on these examples above, it is obvious that my lens is not delivering as well as the stock lens. If you could see the full-frames at 1920x1080, it's sickening. I didn't show the worst part of the frame, which is the upper left quadrant where all the tree branches have red/blue 'ghost' images--it looks like a process color print where the cyan and magenta plates were out of registration and it looks horrible. I can't shoot a theatrical motion picture with such a lens!

I've gotten better images than this with cheap add on adapters, so I HOPE this is just a dud lens and that a replacement will be as good as my stock lens, or preferably even better.

Just curious by what you mean "go in" with regard to the lens. What does that mean? I've reinstalled it a couple of times, redid the flangeback auto adjust several times in front of a Siemens chart, but in all cases, the resulting images are very soft and have CA fringing over most of the left half of the image. The upper left quadrant seems to have the worst blue-red mis-registration, the rest not as bad, but still far worse than stock lens. The camera appears to recognize the lens, as XS8X4AS-XB8 in the lens menu, so that part checks okay.

Bottom line is, this particular lens is just as bad as the lens on my old HVR-V1U HDV camera, which also had tons of CA at the wider end of its range. Maybe there's something wrong with the backfocus mechanism on this one, though I'd say it's soft throughout the full zoom range.

If it doesn't improve drastically with another few flangeback adjustment cycles (it's been the same since the first flangeback I did on Friday night), I'm going to have to hash it out with Sony, who seem to deny anything that is qualitatively wrong with their cameras. For instance, the EX1 has horrid CA at the full tele end of its range and Sony's San Jose facility either didn't understand what CA is, or pretended not to. I sent them a printed frame with stick on arrows pointing out the red/blue fringe on black ties and white shirts in the front of an orchestra scene, but they couldn't help me. I'm concerned that they will claim this lens is performing to spec, just as they did with my EX1.

Oh, one other minor nitpick:
Why, at this price level, didn't Sony/Fujinon include a decent shutter/hood like they do on their cheaper stock lenses? The first thing that gets lost is the stupid lens cap. And the lens is not as well protected with this shallow rubber hood around it. It's not shielded from the sun, nor is it recessed enough to be protected from accidental touching. I walked around Kent all afternoon with this lens and the cap and what a major PitA it was to pull that cap off every time I wanted to shoot a scene!
 
Return the lens to see if it's defective. You have nothing to compare it to of a similar production run. The factory should tell you if it's right or not. It's likely been put out of alignment, or maybe it was a defective lens to begin with. It happens.
 
I'm wondering whether to send sample images to Sony first, to establish whether this is a defect, or normal performance. The lens was well-packed by B&H, double-boxed with air bag cushions, so it's unlikely that shipping damage is to blame.

My dilemma is that I'm shooting an event that takes place inside of Limousines and cannot shoot it effectively with the stock lens, which is too narrow. I ordered this lens on April 7th and it was backordered until it shipped on the 23rd, which ate up our time window for dealing with defective equipment. If I send it in now, I may not have it back, or a replacement, in time for the May 8th shooting.

Given that the stock lens works great and produces no visible CA (barely detectable on a still frame zoomed 200% in Photoshop) with my EX3, I would assume the camera is not to blame, but the wide angle lens is.

From my samples above, is it apparent, in your opinion based on your own lens, that my lens is not performing as it should? I think it's reasonable to expect identical performance to the stock lens, only wider field of view, not more blurring and CA, right?
 
I meant "go in" for repair. Sounds like yours does. Just ask for a replacement. And if you need a wide angle just rent one. You can use a 2/3 or 1/2 inch. As for the lens hood, that is a professional one. All the high dollar lens are like that. Only smaller camcorders have the door closing hood. That will guarantee to break and quit working at some point. Just use the lens cover in the case. Unless your in a bad environment where you need to keep covering the lens.
 
I wrote to B&H and also to Sony, via their Sony Pro web site and will see if they respond in 24 hours.

At this point, I would not want to mess around with having the lens 'repaired'. I think a new lens, from a different manufacturing run would be the safer way to go.

I realize the hood is a professional type, but the shutter hood on the stock lens is really so much better, providing better protection when it's open (deeper recess) and the ability to close it with the flick of a finger. I've had these since my HVR-V1U and never had one break on me. The trick is not to force the lever. With the lens cap, the lens will end up getting dirty because I'll be forced to leave the cap off in frequent shooting situations, where I'd normally just flip open the shutter, shoot, and close it again. I guess it's time to invest another $1,700 into a matte box. I'm not thrilled with that ENG-style rubber hood. It doesn't keep the sun off the lens and provides little to no protection at all from handling accidents.

Awaiting what Sony has to say about this.

Do the examples above look soft to you?
 
Thanks for those links. But I still wish someone would come up with a shuttered hood for this lens. Having one of those bags dangling off the front of the camera just doesn't seem right. Memories of my VX2000 with lens cap attached to a string, hanging off the front of the camera..
 
Spoke with someone from Fujinon in Wayne, NJ today, and decided to ship it to them overnight. Hopefully they will find out what's wrong with the lens and correct it, tweak it to perfection and get it back to me by early next week. They are going to check it on something called a 'collimator'. With any luck, I'll get back a lens that equals or exceeds the clarity and freedom from CA that my stock lens does. Keeping fingers crossed!
 
Definately! I seriously hope they find unmistakeably that this particular lens is way outa whack. I'd hate to think that CA is the cost of wide angle performance.
They said they would contact me Thursday or Friday and let me know what they find out from their tests.
 
The lens is out of focus throughout the entire range, from zoom to wide. I can't get sharply focused images at all. The CA just is a component of that, since if the spectrum of light is going in and out of focus from red to blue in opposite directions, how can any part of the image really be in focus?

Lens was delivered to Fujinon about 10:30 this morning. Just called them and left a voice mail. I'm anxious to learn what the problem is.
 
Just got off the phone with Fujinon again.. they can't find anything wrong with my lens!
They're shipping me out a loaner lens to try out, just in case it's a problem with that lens communicating with my EX3 (where the automatic CA correction might be disabled). I'll try it and see how the sharpness and CA compares. It should be dramatic. If it's not, then I guess I'm better off with a cheap conversion lens, because the quality I'm getting from the dedicated WA lens is very poor, IMHO. I should have it tomorrow and I can hopefully update this thread with some comparisons.
 
This isn't encouraging:

http://www.shipsides.com/download/Wide1.jpg

Andy's lens has the same chromatic aberrations as mine. So unless the odd chance that we BOTH have bum lenses, it looks like this lens isn't worth the money.

My stock lens is perfect in this regard. I'm very happy with it. For four grand, I would have no question that the wide lens would equal or surpass my included stock lens. Apparently I was mistaken.

This amount of CA is unacceptable for me, under ANY circumstances. Now the challenge will be getting B&H to take back the lens and refund my money, so I can get a cheap add-on lens that will do the same, roughly.
 
I've received a loaner from Fujinon about 90 minutes ago. I spent an hour with it and the stock lens, changing back and forth and measuring/comparing. I found that the wide lens, zoomed to Z11, matches the field of view on the stock lens, so I was able to make apples to apples test shots.

The results are disappointing. All of the shots with the 8XS wide lens are lacking in fine detail and riddled with chromatic aberrations, especially strong red and cyan fringes.

The stock lens has no red CA whatsoever, and only the slightest blue fringe on the shot up into the sky through some trees, a worst case shot. The boat shot shows no CA on the stock lens, but copious amounts on the wide lens, which is also less clear, looking more like someone coated the lens with Vaseline.

Here's an archive of uncompressed test images, if anyone would like to compare for themselves.

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=OHo2NWNqQzd5Ukd4dnc9PQ

My feeling is that this lens is not worth $4,000. Maybe $1100 to a max of $1500, but certainly not over $2000. Not with this severe loss of detail.

As such, the lens is really not much use to me, and certainly not worth the price. B&H states that there are no returns on this item, so I expect I'm going to have to be very persuasive to get them to refund my money and take back this lens. Hey, at least Canon HV20 owners can brag about how their camcorder can produce images as sharp, and cleaner and freer from CA than this expensive Fujinon lens. :cry:
 
I paid with a credit card, so I can always play 'hardball' and do a chargeback, though I'd much prefer to do it amicably. I was okay with the no returns policy, assuming the lens provided $4000 worth of performance, but it doesn't. I've had $450 add on adapters that look like this!
 
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