Quality Glass on the A7s

cyork

cyork

Well-known member
What a difference glass makes. I had a chance with a 50mm older Zeiss Contax and wow. Night and day over the Tokina 11-16, Rokinon 35mm Cine and Sigma 18-35 I normally use. They are complete junk in comparison. The slightly yellowish skintones? Gone. Sharpness out the wazoo. Better color, depth. I've shot Zeiss kits plenty in the past but hadn't had the chance to try it on the A7s until today. Got some lenses for sale ;)

Got any great lens recs? Post away!



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cyork said:
What a difference glass makes. I'll be back with stills in a bit but I had a chance with a 50mm older Zeiss Contax and wow. Night and day over the Tokina 11-16, Rokinon 35mm Cine and Sigma 18-35 I normally use. They are complete junk in comparison. The slightly yellowish skintones? Gone. Sharpness out the wazoo. Better color, depth. I've shot Zeiss kits plenty in the past but hadn't had the chance to try it on the A7s until today. Got some lenses for sale ;)

Got any great lens recs? Post away!
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I have always been a fan of the Zeiss Contax line. Organic yet sharp, and decent speeds depending on the lens. Working on building my own set.

Looking forward to the stills.
 
Wow. Now u just tell me. Just ordered the rokinon 35mm t1.5 from b&h. I may need to cancel that and just rent that zeiss for this important music video shoot. Cyork can u please tell us how big the detail difference is? Oh and the exact model of the older zeiss your using.
 
Zeiss Contax or C/Y lenses are my favorite legacy glass. All metal, very sharp, accurate distance markings, most have long focus throws that are beautifully smooth and have hard stops. They're great cine lenses.

The 35-70/3.4 is a great starter C/Y if you don't have any. It's prime sharp or better (thats not conjecture, that comes from the MTF), relatively compact and has a respectable macro mode. The other C/Y zooms are really good, but they get pretty big/heavy. The 28/35/85/135 2.8's and the 50/1.4 can all be had for less $400 if you patient with KEH or ebay, they're all very sharp wide open and have that awesome Zeiss pop. The 60 makro will run a little more, it's awesome. The 85/1.4 can be had for $600-ish, its a portrait lens, soft wide open and sharp stopped down - I have the Samyang 85 for sharpness at 1.4, under $300 and goes nice with Zeiss. The 25/2.8 is always speedy, and its not much wider than the 28, not a good value IMO. Then you get into the 21/2.8, 28/2, 35/1.4, and 100/2 - all amazing and all will run you $1000+. The Olympus 21/3.5 is a great substitute for the Zeiss 21 and much smaller/cheaper.

There are two different versions of C/Y's, made in Germany or Japan. The German (AEG) versions have the ninja star bokeh - usually about a stop from wide open. The Japanese lenses (MMJ) don't have the ninja star. Some like it, some hate it. I hate it, so my lenses are MMJ. The easy way to tell them apart - the last aperture marking is green instead of white on the MMJ lenses. Most of these lenses are 20+ years old, so versions with pristine glass fetch a premium. Good copies keep going up in price, try them and if you don't like them its not like selling a used Canon lens - you won't lose anything on the back end.
 
reem12 said:
Wow. Now u just tell me. Just ordered the rokinon 35mm t1.5 from b&h. I may need to cancel that and just rent that zeiss for this important music video shoot. Cyork can u please tell us how big the detail difference is? Oh and the exact model of the older zeiss your using.
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LOL, sorry man! You'll still like that Rokinon, it's still a great lens and pretty comparable to the Canon 35mm 1.4. I was just floored by how much more saturation and magenta the Zeiss brought back to the image. Enough that I would change my profiles to account for the shift. Kholi's profile with my usual post recipe is now too saturated and magenta.

We used CY Zeiss on all of our weddings with 31films and the results were always solid. Granted, it's not "night and day" to everybody and mileage will vary but I found that the 50mm had a slight magenta cast which neutralizes the greenish cast we've been seeing. Plus, it's really sharp in FF mode. Noticeable crisper and smooth at the same time. A Zeiss trademark it seems.
 
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cyork said:
What a difference glass makes. I'll be back with stills in a bit but I had a chance with a 50mm older Zeiss Contax and wow. Night and day over the Tokina 11-16, Rokinon 35mm Cine and Sigma 18-35 I normally use. They are complete junk in comparison. The slightly yellowish skintones? Gone. Sharpness out the wazoo. Better color, depth. I've shot Zeiss kits plenty in the past but hadn't had the chance to try it on the A7s until today. Got some lenses for sale ;)

Got any great lens recs? Post away!
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I like contax glass, but that's a bit tough to compare a 50mm prime with an 11-16mm and 18-35mm zooms.
 
Liam Hall said:
I like contax glass, but that's a bit tough to compare a 50mm prime with an 11-16mm and 18-35mm zooms.
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Fair enough but I also compared it to a 35mm cine prime :) These lenses are all in the same ballpark in price, all being south of $800 and north of $350. Pretty affordable glass with the most expensive being the Sigma, which is a great zoom for the money. Still, something magical about the Zeiss Contax and when comparing within the 50mm prime space, an amazing competitor. Anyway, I mainly wanted to kick off a thread where people share their experiences with the different lenses they've bought, rented or borrowed.
 
cyork said:
LOL, sorry man! You'll still like that Rokinon, it's still a great lens and pretty comparable to the Canon 35mm 1.4. I was just floored by how much more saturation and magenta the Zeiss brought back to the image. Enough that I would change my profiles to account for the shift. Kholi's profile with my usual post recipe is now too saturated and magenta.
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That makes sense, though. C/Y Zeiss are inherently warm/magenta from the onset. They were the first set of lenses I owned, and used them often. ZE counter parts are far more neutral, as are the Tokina and Sigma lenses.

Especially the Sigma.
 
Kholi said:
That makes sense, though. C/Y Zeiss are inherently warm/magenta from the onset. They were the first set of lenses I owned, and used them often. ZE counter parts are far more neutral, as are the Tokina and Sigma lenses.

Especially the Sigma.
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Interesting. Now that does make a lot more sense. Haven't ever performed any side by sides between the C/Y and the ZE but have shot on both. Just makes me want to get rid of my rag tag crew of lenses and get my own personal matching set of Zeiss. Peas and carrots with this camera.
 
cyork said:
Interesting. Now that does make a lot more sense. Haven't ever performed any side by sides between the C/Y and the ZE but have shot on both. Just makes me want to get rid of my rag tag crew of lenses and get my own personal matching set of Zeiss. Peas and carrots with this camera.
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ZE's Neutral/blue, C/Y Zeiss Warm/magenta (depending on the lens, yellow actually), Canon FD's warm/magenta, Samyang Neutral/Yellow, Tokina neutral/magenta, Tamron neutral/green.

I'm generally a fan of neutral, but neutral's also a much less dynamic base for any video camera in my opinion, where the ideal situation is neutral/warm with little bias toward magenta or yellow.

Matching set of glass = always. I can't dedicate any money to a single lens that won't have matching focal lengths, and even THEN the damned things don't match as far as color and contrast go. u_u. It's a lot better than trying to mix-and-match from various brands, eras, etc.

The difference between now and then (then being 35mm Adapter days or even earlier DSLRs), we can see the impact on glass immediately.


I haven't investigated this, I also believe C/Y Zeiss' older coatings invite more IR contamination. I can't confirm, it's just a hunch, though.
 
Koli. What are your thoughts on the 35mm rokinon t1.5. I plan on using the lens a lot for my music video shoot along with your proile. Do u think its a sharp organic lens, and second do u think I need to make any adjustments to your profile to get that balanced look that your profile seems to provide?
 
photochris said:
There are two different versions of C/Y's, made in Germany or Japan. The German (AEG) versions have the ninja star bokeh - usually about a stop from wide open. The Japanese lenses (MMJ) don't have the ninja star.
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Small correction: AE type Contax lenses I've used have all had Ninja Star apertures at 2nd and 3rd stops (not just 2nd) from wide open, whether made in Germany or Japan. And MM-types do not, whether made in Germany or Japan. There are AE and MM types made in both Germany and Japan (AEG, AEJ, MMG, MMJ).

The above has been true for the following AE's I've used: 28/2, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 100/2, 135/2. And the following MM's: 25/2.8, and 35/2.8.

In fact I am selling a great copy of the 35/1.4 AEG and two imperfect, slightly hazy/fungusy copies of 100/2 and 135/2 AEG...
 
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reem12 said:
Koli. What are your thoughts on the 35mm rokinon t1.5. I plan on using the lens a lot for my music video shoot along with your proile. Do u think its a sharp organic lens, and second do u think I need to make any adjustments to your profile to get that balanced look that your profile seems to provide?
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I have a hard time getting behind Rokinons on smaller sensors, mostly because they're so soft/hazy wide open, on the A7S they're actually likely really solid given that you can shoot down to a 2.8 where they're fine at, and still have quite a bit of depth to play with.

I do think that the PicPro I whipped up would look a bit too magenta with the Rokinons, though. You'd have to try it to make sure.
 
Great roundup Kholi

I'll add that my Leica-R lenses are pure optical love, and they have a slightly greenish tint, which seems slightly stronger in the highlights (probably related to their very nice highlight blooming)

I use my modern Sigma glass to do color tests, but the image is nowhere as nice as it is on the Leicas.
 
http://www.shutterangle.com/2012/color-matching-lenses-for-video/

Scroll down to the strip of gray card shots for Leica R vs C/Y Zeiss tint comparison.
As pointed above Leica R is greener and bluer compared to C/Y Zeiss glass (which, in turn, is warmer and more magenta in comparison).

edit: it should be noted though that Leica apparently changed coatings at some time in the 70s. Earlier Leica R lenses are supposed to be warm and yellowish.
 
I don't see that pre-70s difference in my tests (here) (the 90mm is not that greenish but the 180mm definitely is).
But your gray card test is much better than what I have (I was testing sharpness, and happened to set WB the same for all lenses).
 
My copy of the Rokinon 35mm cine is definitely not adding magenta. It's a warm, yellow tint if anything. I like the lens but it does force me to correct a but more to get skin tones in line. The sigma 18-35 is very neutral, as Kholi mentioned but combined with the A7s, some profiles still have a touch of the green/yellow bias. Honestly, the Zeiss C/Y is adding more magenta and color than I care for but it's such a shift in the right direction that it just caught me off guard and I got giddy about it :) Those images I went back and posted were toned down, desaturated and corrected a bit back towards green. Just a bit.
 
I have a set of Zeiss Contax too and use them on the A7s, the 100mm is wonderful on full frame.

But for stills i also shoot with voigtlander rangefinder lenses and i love them. I have the 12mm, 21mm, 35mm, 28mm (my fav) and about to grab the new 50mm. They work so well with the A7s in terms of size and being manual anyway the focusing is as you'd expect. Of course perhaps a bit fiddly on a set but as a set of compact lenses you can have in a small bag, they're wonderful.

They have such a nice drop off in DOF and a really natural organic look without being 'vintage'. The 35mm is unusual in that it's a modern lens but with a single coating option. It flares wonderfully although it's got quite a bit of distortion (redeemed by the tiny size and the fact that it's f1.4)

cheers
Paul
 
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