Q about ND filters/ variable ND

Y

ymotion

Member
Hi,
I'm filming with a7sii. I've got an outdoor project and I'll need to use ND filters. I'm filming mostly handheld so no matt box filters. I know that variable ND would give the most flexibility, but this comes with a loss of quality. My q: does anyone got really good results with a Var ND filter? Or - and this is what I'm considering: to get two ND filters (like 6 stops and 3 stops) and stack them one on top of the other if needed. I know it's less flexible, I'll need to compensate with aperture or shutter speed (1/50, 1/100) but maybe the quality is better? Would very much appreciate any input from your experience.
PS. I'm not using log2 or log3.
Thanks!
 
Not all variable NDs are created equal, and there are some that don't suffer the negative effects of the others. The best one that I've used is the SLR Magic MKII, but it's max 1.8 ND might be kinda limiting with the A7SIIs 1600 ISO in S-log. The PowerXND 2000 might be a good option for you, but I haven't seen any comprehensive reviews.

I remember reading about a variable ND that doesn't affect polarized light at all, but I don't remember the brand or model. The SLR Magic MKII and Genus Solar Eclipse allow you to rotate the entire filter to dial in the amount of polarization, but it will still cut some polarized light. My SLR Magic doesn't appear to affect sharpness at all, it also doesn't have a color cast per se, more of a warming effect, and it doesn't have a black X at max density.

Here's a mini VND shoot-out that I did.
 
Just came to my mind...If I have two lenses, one with 77mm filter thread, the other 72mm - Is it ok to buy one Var ND filter with 77mm and buy a 72-77 step up ring? It seems like it's OK in terms of vignetting - but just checking. thnx
 
Yah, step up rings are a good idea, I think that's what pretty much everyone does.

I'd recommend getting a VND that has usable front filter threads so that you can use a rubber lens hood. It's also nice to get one that allows you to rotate the filter and dial in the amount of polarization you want.

Here's a review video on the Tiffen and other VNDs, it's kinda old, but I don't think Tiffen has updated the filter at all.
 
I never liked my LCW Fader ND Mk2, it made my images soft and the colors ugly. Sold it and went for a set of cheap Tiffen ND screw-in filters, stacked when necessary. Huge improvement. No sharpness loss anymore, but the color cast was green and it went worse the more filtering I added. Switched to a set of Hoya ProND screw-in filters, never stacked because I have strong-enough ones now. This improvement was not huge, but it was there: no color cast anymore (I haven't ran any controlled tests, but they are good enough that I didn't feel I needed to test them).

My preferred ND set is 3+5+7+9 stops. I can also work with 3+6+9 on the a7S, but for the RX100 IV it's too much, since increasing ISO by two stops already generates noise (I try not to compensate with shutter speed or f-stop, but with ISO; the a7S can go +2 stops without issue, so that's what I did).

My tests here: http://www.similaar.com/foto/lenstests/lenstestsn.html


Edit: I just packed for a trip where I want to be very light, and I just put the 5-stop ND filter in the bag. With that and the 3-stop internal-ND of the RX100 IV, I'm set. Also: note that I'm shooting slog2 except when thre's very little light; this means I'm limited to ISO 800 and higher (it's nominally ISO 1600 but I alwas overexpose by one stop when shooting slog2 so, 800).
 
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From the many I have and tried and in a totally unscientific way (Sing Ray, Eclipse, Tiffen & Heliopan), the Heliopan (82 with step down rings) works best by far regarding to sharpness & color shift...
Also using the Tiffen for UWA as the design with the front glass really bigger than the thread (82mm) will never vignette, at least down to 14mm on FF with my setup with thin step down rings (Heliopan in my case).
Using also the Lee filter holder with a bunch of Lee & Tiffen fixed ND or grad NDs with better results than any VND but at the price of being a pain in the ass to deal with in my dusty field!
The new king of the the hill of VND seems to be the Schneider 82mm True-Match Vari-ND for now, but I did not own it, and not planing to coz it's a bit pricey while still being just a pair of polariser in design.
What I'm really hoping, dreaming I should say, is to get rid of all that with an electronic VND at some point!
Hope it helps!
 
PYL said:
From the many I have and tried and in a totally unscientific way (Sing Ray, Eclipse, Tiffen & Heliopan), the Heliopan (82 with step down rings) works best by far regarding to sharpness & color shift...
Also using the Tiffen for UWA as the design with the front glass really bigger than the thread (82mm) will never vignette, at least down to 14mm on FF with my setup with thin step down rings (Heliopan in my case).
Using also the Lee filter holder with a bunch of Lee & Tiffen fixed ND or grad NDs with better results than any VND but at the price of being a pain in the ass to deal with in my dusty field!
The new king of the the hill of VND seems to be the Schneider 82mm True-Match Vari-ND for now, but I did not own it, and not planing to coz it's a bit pricey while still being just a pair of polariser in design.
What I'm really hoping, dreaming I should say, is to get rid of all that with an electronic VND at some point!
Hope it helps!
Click to expand...

Hi PYL, thanks a lot. Yes, it helps. Since I'm mostly doing videos I wonder how is it to shoot handheld with the system of square filter? It doesn't look so heavy like the entire matte box system.
 
A pain!!!-)
Not because it's heavy (it's not), but because you have to always change the ND as it's not variable (there is some VND systems for mattebox but then it's heavy and cumbersome while still being only a double pola design, no gain there for me), because you have to store ALL your NDs clean and the change on the go sloooows down the shooting as you don't want to put your fingerprints everywhere and don't want to have one slipping down your hands while blocking the filters case under your arm when changing in the speed, because you have to be careful when you put your camera down or move it around as the corners are fragile, because you have to pay attention to the dust not only on the external side of the ND but also the internal one, and the lens itself as it's not "sealed" (and in between if you use mutilple filters at once in the holder)... As I said... a REAL MASTER PAIN! at least for me, as I'm more into docs than feature... but then if you are into feature, you don't want to use a VND!
I'm using that system mostly if not only for landscape photography, as in this case you have time and a grad ND is most of time more useful than a VND, or a strong ND (and if it's strong, it's better to have a normal ND than a VND pushed to the max) for timelapse...
 
I use the Hoya Pro ND filters with the Xume magnetic adaptors its super quick to change and no colour shift. Initial outlay is more but it is a really great system and of course looked after they are a lifetime purchase.
 
PYL said:
A pain!!!-)
Not because it's heavy (it's not), but because you have to always change the ND as it's not variable (there is some VND systems for mattebox but then it's heavy and cumbersome while still being only a double pola design, no gain there for me), because you have to store ALL your NDs clean and the change on the go sloooows down the shooting as you don't want to put your fingerprints everywhere and don't want to have one slipping down your hands while blocking the filters case under your arm when changing in the speed, because you have to be careful when you put your camera down or move it around as the corners are fragile, because you have to pay attention to the dust not only on the external side of the ND but also the internal one, and the lens itself as it's not "sealed" (and in between if you use mutilple filters at once in the holder)... As I said... a REAL MASTER PAIN! at least for me, as I'm more into docs than feature... but then if you are into feature, you don't want to use a VND!
I'm using that system mostly if not only for landscape photography, as in this case you have time and a grad ND is most of time more useful than a VND, or a strong ND (and if it's strong, it's better to have a normal ND than a VND pushed to the max) for timelapse...
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot! I like your style of writing :-)
 
-) the Xume system is very attractive but once you add the magnetic adapter, the filter holder and the step down ring... I'm a wide angle guy!-(
 
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