PROs, come in - what would you tell the "newbie" you?

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dylansmith

Well-known member
For those who have been in the cinematography scene for years, what are the top 3 things you would tell the "newbie" you, if you had the chance to go back in time to mentor yourself and speed up the learning process? This can be anything - perhaps from discovering great structured video tutorials that simplify the learning process, simple concepts that totally change the way you do things, workflow etc.

Let's keep this thread clear, simple and focused.

looking forward to hearing from the gurus here! :)
 
A big breakthrough for me was realizing that you can light for different f-stops. Using a lot of light to introduce shadow where you have none naturally occurring...somewhat similar to flash photography.
 
- Don't sweat the camera, buy good lenses, lighting and grip first.
- ALWAYS have contracts in place BEFORE you start shooting.
- Get out there, meet people and network, network and network.
 
1- Learn making good visuals

2- Learn making great audio

3- Test, test, and test,

4- Don't be shy and network as he said, make a TON load of friends and contacts.
 
3. Basics of cinematography can be learned in 2h watching internet tutorials,
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Are you freaking serious? !

#1 and #2 have nothing to do with cinematography either...and is crap advice for a question in a Cinematography Forum (Section)

Others seem to be confused about what "cinematography" actually means also. It not about gear or contracts.
 
Shooter said:
Are you freaking serious? !

#1 and #2 have nothing to do with cinematography either...and is crap advice for a question in a Cinematography Forum (Section)

Others seem to be confused about what "cinematography" actually means also. It not about gear or contracts.[/COLOR]
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#1 It's about politics and not your talent:
-- how you manage crew to get the shots you want
-- how you manage higher ups to convince them that your way is better
-- how you manage producer to find a way to squeeze that extra days for pickups
-- how you "kiss ass" - without making it appear as such - so you become producer's favorite camera guy
-- how you speculate on which projects you involve yourself with (when you take major rate cut for future returns - not necessary monetary)
-- .....do you want me to keep on going?


#2 Pick whew you want to go against the river.
-- when you "destroy" a relationship by putting your foot down to get certain shot in certain way (and if that destruction is worthy for that shot)
-- when you try to infuse your visual work with psychology, philosophy, literature (how to manipulate one form using another form)

#3 Basics of cinematography can be learned in 2h watching internet tutorials.
-- pay attention to words, "basics" has a very specific meaning - noone is claiming that #1 and #2 can be learned in those 2 hours.

Are you sure you are not limiting yourself by assuming that politics, psychology, personal growth don't have much to do with cinematography????
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
#1 It's about politics and not your talent:
-- how you manage crew to get the shots you want
-- how you manage higher ups to convince them that your way is better
-- how you manage producer to find a way to squeeze that extra days for pickups
-- how you "kiss ass" - without making it appear as such - so you become producer's favorite camera guy
-- how you speculate on which projects you involve yourself with (when you take major rate cut for future returns - not necessary monetary)
-- .....do you want me to keep on going?


#2 Pick whew you want to go against the river.
-- when you "destroy" a relationship by putting your foot down to get certain shot in certain way (and if that destruction is worthy for that shot)
-- when you try to infuse your visual work with psychology, philosophy, literature (how to manipulate one form using another form)

#3 Basics of cinematography can be learned in 2h watching internet tutorials.
-- pay attention to words, "basics" has a very specific meaning - noone is claiming that #1 and #2 can be learned in those 2 hours.

Are you sure you are not limiting yourself by assuming that politics, psychology, personal growth don't have much to do with cinematography????
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I Find the above to be true in almost every single working instance wherein I am not 100% in control of all decisions, and frequently true even when I am.
 
Without distilling "cinematography" into intellectual b.s.... here is what it means...and "talent" means something above all else in art.


cinematography
ˌsɪnɪməˈtɒɡrəfi/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]
  • the art of photography and camerawork in film-making.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"home movie footage with superb cinematography"[/COLOR]


[/COLOR]


Those that employ me dont give a fat rats arse about my "politics, psychology, personal growth".
Friendships and relationships matter (on and off set) ...but I wouldn "kiss arse " to demean my personal integrity for work.

Heres my tip to the O.P

"Learnt that making a film is a team effort and not just about any single crew member - including the D.P / Cinematographer"

"Learn the art of cinematography by studying and observing light and the physics of light"

"having a good eye is not a cliche....its a fact"

 
For the original post: I would say, turn it on...and never turn it off. Study your craft at all times and in everything you do. Remember its also just as much, or more, about people skills and clarity of mind in idea, as it is in ability. You need to be firing on all cylinders. Learn the box...then break the box. Learn from the masters...but don't try and be them. Create your own craft...and always have the highest expectations on set. See it in your mind first. Then go make it. Do what ever it takes...and don't burn bridges if possible. Most importantly, never lose your cool on set...but definitely let your motivation and passion be contagious.

as for this: "You have "art" in your definition - look it up." ...art is not something you need to "look up" or define in a book...or look to others as if viewing a training video. Its something you discover that should not have boundaries. Define your perception of it...and redefine it...forget it, and remember it...its a moving target. Re-invent it. Don't get your direction from someone else's generic definition...and definitely don't get all your information from DVXuser.
 
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1: I would have started early in my life.
2: I would have worked for and learn as much as possible from gaffers and skilled people in this craft.
3: I would have put in a lot of time learning this trade.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
as for this: "You have "art" in your definition - look it up." ...art is not something you need to "look up" or define in a book...or look to others as if viewing a training video. Its something you discover that should not have boundaries. Define your perception of it...and redefine it...forget it, and remember it...its a moving target. Re-invent it. Don't get your direction from someone else's generic definition...and definitely don't get all your information from DVXuser.
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That's my point. Any definitions that have "art" in it are so far from certainty that using it as proof of anything is pointless.
 
Three words Patrick....

"art - of - cinematography". (We are not defining of debating what art is.)

"cinematography" is the key word and "art" is there to give meaning. "of" is to relate art to cinematography in a context.

eg. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination in photography and film..."cinematography"


If it was art of dance or art of glass blowing... it would mean something different and nothing to do with photography.
 
I think at least half of all cinematography can be learned by rote by anyone, and held to with a mechanical efficiency that requires no art nor 'talent' but rather simple memorization.

I say this because I have personally taught these '2-hours worth of basics' to several shooters who never had any intention of being an 'artist' with cinematography - they just needed to turn in product that would be widely accepted as "looking professional", and it worked perfectly.

Generally I would be referring to:
Hard light vs. soft light and when each is 'generally used with wide acceptance'.
Shallow vs. deep depth of field and when each is 'generally used with wide acceptance'.
Effects of lens length on backgrounds and image flatness as is 'generally used with wide acceptance'.
Most common framings - Establishing shot, wide-mid-close, rule of thirds, OTS, 180-degree rule, again as 'generally used with wide acceptance'.
Basic camera movement of sliders, dolly, tracking, follow along, as 'generally used with wide acceptance'.

I have walked these people through these basics in about a day - made them memorize them - and from there on what they shot looked perfectly acceptable as 'professional'.

Now the truly advanced "art" as Shooter and others mention is a very real thing, but is generally only needed in narrative and some documentary work. Also, like most real art, it tends to be something that often cannot be 'taught', but only learned by the individual who desires to do so.

Shooter is right - from his angle of appreciation. I think all of us here are here BECAUSE we are drawn to this aspect of the 'art'.
But I find Patryk's definitions to be far more applicable to the bulk of what constitutes paid work.
 
You are the one providing the definitions, so if we were to take the conversation further we need to start being concrete with the words we use. "Art of something" means a very different thing than "craft of something", so no "art of glass blowing" is NOT the same as "craft" of it. Craft encompasses all the technical and practical necessities to deliver, as DPSteward said, professional results, while "art" of something has more to it. So even though it's hard to talk about philosophy or metaphysics of "craftsmanship of glass blowing" it very much so in order when talking about "art" of it. And quite frankly as OP asked about life's lessons - after all many of us have been doing it for many, many, many years - to trivializes it by talking about non-art part of cinematography is a bit banal, isn't it?
 
Well, I think the *basics* are all assumed to have been mastered - hard/soft light, light levels, basic physics, basic light control tools and basic light sources. I mean we're not talking dp 101 here, otherwise what's the point. Advice I'd give myself from the past - "less is more", "learn by *subtracting* light, not adding", "use your eyes and your aesthetic sense - there is no substitute", "rules allow you to work fast, but for impact you need to use your eyes and aesthetic sense... if something looks good to you, then do it even if it 'breaks the rules'", this one is hard - "try to work for the story, not for the pretty picture - be sensitive to what the director needs for the story, not just how to light up a scene, but this scene, to achieve this artistic goal"; "you are a part of a team, you serve the film, the film does not serve you to show off your cool stuff"; "experiment - carry a light and move it around before you decide where to put it, try crazy stuff, sometimes you find gems that way". I love the experimenting part - you learn so much, sometimes an experiment will not work for this film, but you learn something from it you can use on another film or another situation... I accidentally found one effect that it took me 5 years to use in a short, but it was always sitting in the back of my mind. Also, as you walk around in your ordinary life, you will have a habit of watching light and shadows and you'll file away in your mind every time you see something interesting you may be able to use one day, maybe years later. Also big advice to myself from the past: RELAX - you'll have many more ideas when you relax, than when you try to force an "interesting" lighting scheme... instead, just relax and look calmly at the picture and the ideas will come to you without forcing.
 
dylansmith said:
simple concepts that totally change the way you do things
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Minimalism.

Doing the simplest possible lighting that can do the job. Removing all lights except maybe one (or more of course, when necessary). I got this mostly from Gordon Willis (The Godfather).

I never really felt at ease around lighting, the way I did about other things. Sort of like the guy who keeps double-checking the recipe. "Was that 1 1/2 tablespoons or 1 3/4?" So I was like, "Have I used 3-point lighting? Is the fill light supposed to be two stops darker, or three stops darker, than the key?" As opposed to the person who just cooks --- or lights --- by feel and it all just flows (and the result of course turns out well).

Then when I read the advice of Gordon Willis and, in this forum, Joncarr, it finally clicked. It actually all happened here, on DVXUser, in this thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?324164-Share-Your-Lighting. Watch the progression of comments, mainly between me and Joncarr, to see it unfold.
 
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1) Don't spend all your time on great images at the expense of sound!

2) Don't, as I do, spend all your time on DVXuser obsessing about the latest camera or technology. Get out and shoot something.

3) Read a book called "The 5 C's of Cinematography". Then read it 5 more times.
 
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