morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I think it is worth considering the cons of the opposition at the price point.. they all make horrid pictures apart from the BMC4k and the 700/7q which are in the main not practical.
IMO
IMO
FS7: Pros and Cons of the Sony FS7?
- Thread starter JoeJITSU
- Start date
basspig
Veteran
The Shogun CANNOT do DNxHD. I bought it thinking it could, but when I tried to activate the CODEC, it says something about a future firmware release and that it's not available now.
But I'm thinking the same thing, because Adobe is probably not going to update the last perpetually licensed product, CS6, with XAVC and I am NOT going to start going the rental/cloud route for my in-house NLEs. As such, the Shogun offers a compatible CODEC right now, Apple ProRes 422 (albeit slow on Windows WOW64 emulation because Quicktime is only available as 32-bit engine for Windows) that works.
The question is whether the FS7 system menu will allow you to select the mode which switches on 4K HDMI output without having to attach an optional RAW recorder. Looking at the user manual, only the RAW modes show HDMI output with QHD or 4K. Internally recorded modes show "-" for the HDMI output, suggesting no output. If the camera must be shooting raw mode, can we do that without the raw recorder to gain access to the 4K HDMI stream? It looks like the stream can be 'clean' as in no overlays or menus, but under what conditions is it outputting full 4K and not scaled down output?
Pro's - The shoulder mount form factor, the hand grip, the image quality, the codecs, internal 4k, ND filter Wheel, familiar lay out for those of us coming from ENG cams
Cons - for me its the flimsy paper clip like clamp connection between the loupe and the LCD screen that often falls off in a slight breeze. I like the LCD screen but I am looking for an alternative to the Loupe for that reason. I can't think of anything else though, best camera I have ever purchased.
Cons - for me its the flimsy paper clip like clamp connection between the loupe and the LCD screen that often falls off in a slight breeze. I like the LCD screen but I am looking for an alternative to the Loupe for that reason. I can't think of anything else though, best camera I have ever purchased.
allenfacemire
Well-known member
As has been mentioned before, pretty tough to find the perfect camera. There just doesn't seem to be one.
I was late coming to the shallow focus party because all the available cameras were either very expensive ( Alexa, $60k+, and heavy), Red (unreliable and convulted), f3,f5, f55 (good start but not as well suited for handheld work as one would hope) and then the Canon C300, Black Magic, AJA, JCV and the DSLR parade, all of which to me, are ergonomicly illiterate.
When I saw the first pictures of the FS7 it was reminiscent of a film camera, mainly the Aaton. When I got my hands on it I knew it was love as I am mainly a handheld shooter and this camera begs to be picked up.
4k on 128gbs card is a small price for me to pay. An Oydessy 7Q+ solves the long roll problem. No global shutter? Neither does the Alexa. Nor does the Alexa do internal 4k.
My main cons of the FS7: no TC in without the optional back. No raw out without the back and no raw internal record. No easily accessible color bars. Only two tracks of addressable audio without an adapter. No DNxHD. No ProRes without adapter. And the biggie for me, no down convert so my video assist system is toast. No center crop either but I don't care.
Most of these are being addressed with the upcoming firmware update. Not all; but really don't consider these shortcomings. More like things I'd like to see. For the money and for the ergonomics? Pretty damned good overall. Love the ergonomics. Love the pictures. Love the features and love what's on deck. Love that I can use all my Nikon and Ziess glass via a Metabones Speed Booster. Wish there was a true ENG lens but what's available is almost 4 times the cost of the camera and you need to power it separately. But that's an issue with all the shallow depth cameras.
I'm glad I waited to get into the ring. I'd be kind of pissed if I just spent good coinage on one of the f-series cameras only to see the FS7 come out with the same array as the f5 but half the price. That way you can buy f3's by the pound now.
But one must weigh ones needs for the tools available. To me, the few things the FS7 doesn't do, are well overshadowed by what it can do.
The right tool for the majority of my work.
I was late coming to the shallow focus party because all the available cameras were either very expensive ( Alexa, $60k+, and heavy), Red (unreliable and convulted), f3,f5, f55 (good start but not as well suited for handheld work as one would hope) and then the Canon C300, Black Magic, AJA, JCV and the DSLR parade, all of which to me, are ergonomicly illiterate.
When I saw the first pictures of the FS7 it was reminiscent of a film camera, mainly the Aaton. When I got my hands on it I knew it was love as I am mainly a handheld shooter and this camera begs to be picked up.
4k on 128gbs card is a small price for me to pay. An Oydessy 7Q+ solves the long roll problem. No global shutter? Neither does the Alexa. Nor does the Alexa do internal 4k.
My main cons of the FS7: no TC in without the optional back. No raw out without the back and no raw internal record. No easily accessible color bars. Only two tracks of addressable audio without an adapter. No DNxHD. No ProRes without adapter. And the biggie for me, no down convert so my video assist system is toast. No center crop either but I don't care.
Most of these are being addressed with the upcoming firmware update. Not all; but really don't consider these shortcomings. More like things I'd like to see. For the money and for the ergonomics? Pretty damned good overall. Love the ergonomics. Love the pictures. Love the features and love what's on deck. Love that I can use all my Nikon and Ziess glass via a Metabones Speed Booster. Wish there was a true ENG lens but what's available is almost 4 times the cost of the camera and you need to power it separately. But that's an issue with all the shallow depth cameras.
I'm glad I waited to get into the ring. I'd be kind of pissed if I just spent good coinage on one of the f-series cameras only to see the FS7 come out with the same array as the f5 but half the price. That way you can buy f3's by the pound now.
But one must weigh ones needs for the tools available. To me, the few things the FS7 doesn't do, are well overshadowed by what it can do.
The right tool for the majority of my work.
allenfacemire
Well-known member
After checking further into the Shogun its apparent the Odyessy 7Q+ is the way to go. And I'm going that way.
Later this summer the 7Q+ will be able to record up to 4 streams at once. That's a $1k up grade but considering 3 more recorders would cost almost $6900, a good deal for sure.
And if you buy now, you get two free 256gbs cards. And it's an OLED monitor to boot.
Later this summer the 7Q+ will be able to record up to 4 streams at once. That's a $1k up grade but considering 3 more recorders would cost almost $6900, a good deal for sure.
And if you buy now, you get two free 256gbs cards. And it's an OLED monitor to boot.
allenfacemire
Well-known member
As has been mentioned before, pretty tough to find the perfect camera. There just doesn't seem to be one.
I was late coming to the shallow focus party because all the available cameras were either very expensive ( Alexa, $60k+, and heavy), Red (unreliable and convulted), f3,f5, f55 (good start but not as well suited for handheld work as one would hope) and then the Canon C300, Black Magic, AJA, JCV and the DSLR parade, all of which to me, are ergonomicly illiterate.
When I saw the first pictures of the FS7 it was reminiscent of a film camera, mainly the Aaton. When I got my hands on it I knew it was love as I am mainly a handheld shooter and this camera begs to be picked up.
4k on 128gbs card is a small price for me to pay. An Oydessy 7Q+ solves the long roll problem. No global shutter? Neither does the Alexa. Nor does the Alexa do internal 4k.
My main cons of the FS7: no TC in without the optional back. No raw out without the back and no raw internal record. No easily accessible color bars. Only two tracks of addressable audio without an adapter. No DNxHD. No ProRes without adapter. And the biggie for me, no down convert so my video assist system is toast. No center crop either but I don't care.
Most of these are being addressed with the upcoming firmware update. Not all; but really don't consider these shortcomings. More like things I'd like to see. For the money and for the ergonomics? Pretty damned good overall. Love the ergonomics. Love the pictures. Love the features and love what's on deck. Love that I can use all my Nikon and Ziess glass via a Metabones Speed Booster. Wish there was a true ENG lens but what's available is almost 4 times the cost of the camera and you need to power it separately. But that's an issue with all the shallow depth cameras.
I'm glad I waited to get into the ring. I'd be kind of pissed if I just spent good coinage on one of the f-series cameras only to see the FS7 come out with the same array as the f5 but half the price. That way you can buy f3's by the pound now.
But one must weigh ones needs for the tools available. To me, the few things the FS7 doesn't do, are well overshadowed by what it can do.
The right tool for the majority of my work.
I was late coming to the shallow focus party because all the available cameras were either very expensive ( Alexa, $60k+, and heavy), Red (unreliable and convulted), f3,f5, f55 (good start but not as well suited for handheld work as one would hope) and then the Canon C300, Black Magic, AJA, JCV and the DSLR parade, all of which to me, are ergonomicly illiterate.
When I saw the first pictures of the FS7 it was reminiscent of a film camera, mainly the Aaton. When I got my hands on it I knew it was love as I am mainly a handheld shooter and this camera begs to be picked up.
4k on 128gbs card is a small price for me to pay. An Oydessy 7Q+ solves the long roll problem. No global shutter? Neither does the Alexa. Nor does the Alexa do internal 4k.
My main cons of the FS7: no TC in without the optional back. No raw out without the back and no raw internal record. No easily accessible color bars. Only two tracks of addressable audio without an adapter. No DNxHD. No ProRes without adapter. And the biggie for me, no down convert so my video assist system is toast. No center crop either but I don't care.
Most of these are being addressed with the upcoming firmware update. Not all; but really don't consider these shortcomings. More like things I'd like to see. For the money and for the ergonomics? Pretty damned good overall. Love the ergonomics. Love the pictures. Love the features and love what's on deck. Love that I can use all my Nikon and Ziess glass via a Metabones Speed Booster. Wish there was a true ENG lens but what's available is almost 4 times the cost of the camera and you need to power it separately. But that's an issue with all the shallow depth cameras.
I'm glad I waited to get into the ring. I'd be kind of pissed if I just spent good coinage on one of the f-series cameras only to see the FS7 come out with the same array as the f5 but half the price. That way you can buy f3's by the pound now.
But one must weigh ones needs for the tools available. To me, the few things the FS7 doesn't do, are well overshadowed by what it can do.
The right tool for the majority of my work.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Allen,
That's a pretty good assessment of the camera. And I would say that if you consider the purchase price to be $10K instead of $8K and get the XDCA extension unit as if it was really part of the camera, then many of the issues you bring up are taken care of. The key is to look at the FS7 as a $10K camera, with a stripped down $8K version that doesn't have timecode, raw output, ProRes, v-lock batteries, etc. If someone doesn't need those features, then they can save some money. But I think that at $10K, the fully-loaded FS7 is even more of a bargain than the $8k stripped down version. It's all how you look at it.
That's a pretty good assessment of the camera. And I would say that if you consider the purchase price to be $10K instead of $8K and get the XDCA extension unit as if it was really part of the camera, then many of the issues you bring up are taken care of. The key is to look at the FS7 as a $10K camera, with a stripped down $8K version that doesn't have timecode, raw output, ProRes, v-lock batteries, etc. If someone doesn't need those features, then they can save some money. But I think that at $10K, the fully-loaded FS7 is even more of a bargain than the $8k stripped down version. It's all how you look at it.
basspig
Veteran
I wonder if Sony will allow the end users to update the firmware, or will this be a $$$ with FedEx shipping and the update fee?
I considered the Oddyssey 7Q, until I saw the standard def screen. One of the things that drew me to the Shogun was the full HD screen. I can actually SEE what my camera sees. (Presently using with EX3).
The other thing that stopped me dead in my tracks was the proprietary SSDs.. you can't buy your own. You MUST buy their overpriced special ones. That's what I hated about Apple and that's what keeps me away from Convergent Design.
I considered the Oddyssey 7Q, until I saw the standard def screen. One of the things that drew me to the Shogun was the full HD screen. I can actually SEE what my camera sees. (Presently using with EX3).
The other thing that stopped me dead in my tracks was the proprietary SSDs.. you can't buy your own. You MUST buy their overpriced special ones. That's what I hated about Apple and that's what keeps me away from Convergent Design.
Jim Anderson
Well-known member
I agree with Doug, the XDCA back is well worth the $$ for the features it enables from the FS7. As an F5 owner, I needed a 2nd camera to be able to record 4k on multi-camera set-ups and with minor effort with scene files (in HD) or MLUTS (in 4k) they match nicely and the FS7 could be used for a lighter solution for hand held shooting when little or no extra gear was mounted on it. The few cons I found with the grip arm were corrected with the Shape replacement arm. I still haven't received the 28-135 kit lens, but it should arrive any day now to finally give me zoom control through the grip rocker. Another con I noticed that gets mentioned quite a bit is the stock (long) loupe which is restrictive in balancing and the upper and lower clips seem fragile, but I understand Zacuto should have a beefy alternative that snaps on securely and is about an inch+1/2 shorter than the stock loupe released by next month. The Zacuto BMCC Z-Finder was okay as a temporary fix, but didn't mount that well with the adhesive and band mounting options. All in all, I think the FS7 is a great camera and regardless of what surprises come out of NAB this year, I won't have any regrets.
basspig
Veteran
Cons? Needs to be verified, but the audio recording on board is not as good as PMW-EX3. Specs state only 50-20,000hz, so not full frequency range of any goid mikes we use.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
I have had no issue with it being knocked off either. Pretty tight when its strapped on.