Pros and Cons -- GH1 vs Canon 7d

filmbuff81 said:
That was the crux of my point Barry, gracias.

Also Commanderspike, I can use the same argument about the 7D sensor compared to the GH1 sensor.

The 7D has a larger sensor, not full frame, but still larger than the GH1 and therefore has better DR. Also the 7D reproduces colours quite nicely and has an extremely clean image.

I would also like to reiterate that I also said content is king, so I think that as long as you focus more on the story than which of the cameras you're going to use then you'll be fine. Obviously it helps to know the shortcomings of each one, but people who shoot with a GH1 love the experience and the images they are getting, people who shoot with the 5D obviously love the camera despite some shortcomings, and then there's the 7D which people are having fun with already.

The only reason to hold off on buying a camera right now, would be if you don't have plans to shoot anything in the coming months. But if you're someone who likes to shoot constantly and experiment then pick up a camera now play with it, see what you don't like or do like and then take it from there.

I picked up a 5D2 played with it, used it for some gigs, sold it for 200 bucks less than what I bought it for and took the money from the gigs I made and bought a 7D for far less than the retail price.
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filmbuff you hit the nail on the head. Content is KING! Thats my school. My films always could use better cameras, camera work, color correction...etc. But in the end the content is what keeps people liking what I have done.

But at the same time I will always work towards getting the best picture.

I think I will go with the GH1. The 7D looks so good too, but it looks like the GH1 has a lot to offer in terms of ease of use with the AF and LCD. I dont know. But I am afraid of the vertical lines that people say they are getting. You know anything about that?
 
I think the vertical lines you mean are a very rare one off fault, and the camera should be returned under warranty.

But if you mean vertical lines in terms of 'banding' these are faint areas of discolouration caused by the nature of CMOS sensor technology, and these are more accute on the GH1 than they are over the 7D.

All considered, the GH1 is the best hybrid, in terms of an integrated video mode not a 'add on' to a traditional SLR. I'd choose the GH1 as well. There is not enough difference in image quality between the GH1 and 7D to justify the compromises you have to make with the 7D in terms of usability and features. Difference in IQ between GH1 and 5D - maybe - that's a tougher choice, because full frame has some nice advantages when it comes to lenses. Lenses are a major consideration for me, and though the GH1's 2x crop factor (and the 7D's 1.6x) can be a pain in the ass, the GH1 is more adaptable to tons of different types of lenses which kinda makes up for the lack of full frame, in a way.

The 7D (and especially 5D) have more dynamic range at high ISOs than the GH1, this equates to better colour and contrast in some scenes. They also have a better codec.

Finally the 720p mode is very ropey in the 7D. Much nicer on the GH1. 60p in this mode is useful for slow mo.

Hope that helps!
 
commanderspike said:
I think the vertical lines you mean are a very rare one off fault, and the camera should be returned under warranty.

But if you mean vertical lines in terms of 'banding' these are faint areas of discolouration caused by the nature of CMOS sensor technology, and these are more accute on the GH1 than they are over the 7D.

All considered, the GH1 is the best hybrid, in terms of an integrated video mode not a 'add on' to a traditional SLR. I'd choose the GH1 as well. There is not enough difference in image quality between the GH1 and 7D to justify the compromises you have to make with the 7D in terms of usability and features. Difference in IQ between GH1 and 5D - maybe - that's a tougher choice, because full frame has some nice advantages when it comes to lenses. Lenses are a major consideration for me, and though the GH1's 2x crop factor (and the 7D's 1.6x) can be a pain in the ass, the GH1 is more adaptable to tons of different types of lenses which kinda makes up for the lack of full frame, in a way.

The 7D (and especially 5D) have more dynamic range at high ISOs than the GH1, this equates to better colour and contrast in some scenes. They also have a better codec.

Finally the 720p mode is very ropey in the 7D. Much nicer on the GH1. 60p in this mode is useful for slow mo.

Hope that helps!
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Yes helps much. I just purchased the GH1. Wish me luck and thanks to all who helped with this post!
 
commanderspike said:
But if you mean vertical lines in terms of 'banding' these are faint areas of discolouration caused by the nature of CMOS sensor technology, and these are more accute on the GH1 than they are over the 7D.
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I have yet to encounter vertical banding of any sort on the 7d. Not claiming it probably isn't there; however, to say it's more acute on the gh1 when you haven't tried the 7d yet is pretty misleading. There's an entire thread on here regarding banding on the gh1, nothing as prominent has been mentioned regarding the 7d.

I do think vertical banding was pretty bad at higher iso settings on the 5d2 at times, but is significantly improved on the 7d. Higher overall noise, but banding is not as noticeable to me at all.
 
Eatsnax congrats on the camera purchase. You'll have fun with the camera and I'm sure you'll be very happy and produce some terrific stuff.
 
commanderspike said:
But if you mean vertical lines in terms of 'banding' these are faint areas of discolouration caused by the nature of CMOS sensor technology, and these are more accute on the GH1 than they are over the 7D.
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I haven't encountered vertical banding on the 7D. Until I do encounter that I can say you're not going to suffer GH1 banding on the 7D. To say so without using a 7D yourself is yet again misleading.
 
filmbuff81 said:
I thought that if mirror only popped down slightly you had to turn the camera off and let the mirror reset, before you can activate live-view again.

At least this is what I found with my 5D2.

Whenever I would pop my 35mm Zeiss on it would interfere with the mirror when focused to infinity and would require me to detach it slightly to have the mirror drop back into place, so I would use it solely in live mode.

However, lets say I turned the camera off and then decided I wanted to shoot something else a moment later. If I turned the camera back on and tried to activate live view it wouldn't work, I still needed to reset the mirror into it's "default" position for live view to work properly again, otherwise I'd just get a blank screen as if the camera had a brain fart.
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I just did a test with my 7D and found no such issue. I used my finger as the obstacle to prevent the mirror from going all the way "down." I let the mirror move downward a little bit when switching off live view; it stayed mostly "up." I could activate and deactivate live view without issue.
 
Just got my GH1 body. The form factor is super. I've always wished for something like this since i had the canon g3 photocamera from many years ago. I'm tired of big SLR cameras like the 7d. Just the same way I'm tired of looking into the viewfinders of SLR'S. So I settled with the GH1. Super light. Super small. And not very visible to other people. My manager didn't even notice me playing with it @ work. I didn't see anybody bragging too much about the kit lens.
But I shouldve gotten it for photo shooting.
So now I'm waiiting on the 20mm pancake lens. Since my main purpose is shooting for indoors. This is in addition to what i also use. The panasonic SD1 for outdoors. Anybody ordered from Adorama. Or anyplace you might think can get the lens sooner?
 
Congrats on your purchases guys. Despite my bickering over image quality it remains a great option for many people. The pancake lens was also on my list of stuff to get. I recommend getting it with the GF1 bundle if you live in the US and selling the GF1 body to recoup the cost. It'd be much cheaper doing it that way I think, if you're comfortable with using eBay.
 
One thing I've noticed on the GH1 and 7D is the fact that while the GH1 displays pretty much exactly what you get in post ( Including banding and noise ), the 7D looks much better on the display than in post.

This reminds me of the D90 which showed some impressive images on the display. Same thing with the 7D. It seams they are somehow making the image to look better then what they in reality are. I also find it easier to pull focus with the GH1 either display or EVF.
 
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I find the same with the 5D's display. Footage looks better on the screen than on a computer.

Hooking it up to a plasma via HDMI though and the situation is improved, which means it's the computer's fault not the 7D's.
 
Commanderspike:

The low light footage you have in Vimeo using the GH1 is the best i've seen.
Please tell us more on how you made the shots.
Settings/ Post processing/ NLE / extra equipments/ focusing etc.

Thanks for more info.
 
noelsphoto said:
Commanderspike:

The low light footage you have in Vimeo using the GH1 is the best i've seen.
Please tell us more on how you made the shots.
Settings/ Post processing/ NLE / extra equipments/ focusing etc.

Thanks for more info.
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Thanks.

The settings were just standard, 1080p 24p. Nothing to do there.
Lenses were essential. For Shadowplay I used Contax Zeiss 85mm F1.4 and Canon 50mm F1.4 - very fast lenses for maintaining brightness and colour in low light. Cannot be done with the kit lens. You can find these lenses on eBay and you need the adapter. For Nightmarket, light was reasonable for that so I just used the kit lens.
NLE was Final Cut Pro 6
No extra equipment.
 
Did you do 24p pulldown?
Or any color/sharpening with final cut?

I have a couple of fast nikon lenses. I am afraid of manual
focusing. It was very hard when i tried it on the canon rebel
I would always go past the perfect focus spot. Which is very
frustrating.
But I'll I think I'll give it a try with the GH1. Back to Ebay again.

I Appreciate your help.
 
Pull down is done with Voltaic.
No colour grading or sharpening in final cut just straight out of camera.

Don't fear manual focus for this type of footage. It only becomes a problem when the camera or subject is moving at varying distances from one another. Then you really need some kind of focus pulling rig to avoid camera shake.

I also recommend the Hague steadicam for the GH1 if you want to do none-tripod based stuff.
 
matt9b said:
The 5D has issues with video, as far as I'm aware. You have less manual video controls on the 5d. GH-1 has more manual control over video.. Have these issue now been sorted on the 5d?
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You have full manual control now with the 5D just like you do with either the 7D or GH1. They released a manual control firmware update earlier in the year.
 
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