FS7: ProRes Raw

L

LennyLevy

Veteran
Have you tech heads been processing all the talk about about the new Apple ProRes RAW codec?

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/06/prores-raw-is-here/

Its all a little confusing to me and gets a bit beyond my tech knowledge. But in practical terms I'm wondering what it might mean for me as a n FS7 owner.
How well will the new ProRes Raw codec interface with a camera like the FS7 that outputs 12BIT Raw, but that’s generally been disparaged compared to the 16Bit raw of the F5 and F55.
Adding to my confusion on that is that the Atomos recorder as I understand only accepts 12bit Raw in first place so how will that interface with say the F5 compared to the FS7?
 
Lenny - I am eagerly awaiting to find out more about this as well. Especially if, assuming this can happen, with a FW update to camera & ext unit - you could shoot the new Raw format internal to camera without adding the Atomos recorder. After early testing w/ a rented Ody+ & the ext unit - I passed on the raw part of the FS7... this announcement might add a new facet back to the camera
 
LennyLevy said:
Have you tech heads been processing all the talk about about the new Apple ProRes RAW codec?

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/06/prores-raw-is-here/

Its all a little confusing to me and gets a bit beyond my tech knowledge. But in practical terms I'm wondering what it might mean for me as a n FS7 owner.
How well will the new ProRes Raw codec interface with a camera like the FS7 that outputs 12BIT Raw, but that’s generally been disparaged compared to the 16Bit raw of the F5 and F55.
Adding to my confusion on that is that the Atomos recorder as I understand only accepts 12bit Raw in first place so how will that interface with say the F5 compared to the FS7?
Click to expand...

I own an F55 and to my knowledge the F5/55 do not output RAW through their SDI or HDMI connectors. I've shot RAW a few times with my F55 and the only way to do it is with a Sony R5 or R7 recorder which connects via the built-in, proprietary, multi-pin interface.
 
Well isnt the main problem with the FS7 raw data that it isnt that great... in other words it doesnt matter what you wrap a turd in, its still turd. You'd still have to buy the annoying xdca to get to prores raw...
 
I am looking forward to testing the Atomos ProRes RAW with RAW FS7 output. It very well may be that the issues we've seen with CinemaDNG output to Atomos or C-D recur with Atomos ProRes RAW. But I'm keeping an open mind until I and others with more critical eyes than mine can test it.

The simply fact is that with ProRes RAW we will have smaller files than CinemaDNG. FCP X will support it, of course, and I can't imagine that we won't see support in Resolve 15 or PremierePro. Maybe even Avid. The greater issue is that for the short term at least it will only be available with the Atomos devices. We C-D users may have to wait, But we'll have more details about that on Monday. BMD doesn't give us advanced briefings so I can only speculate about Resolve and Adobe has already released its latest update. Of course, CC can update at any time.

I will say that RAW workflows with FC7 and CinemaDNG are complex but having gotten the knack of working with C-D CNG RAW files in Resolve, it really is only a couple of extra steps.

Atomos will have Apple engineers in the booth showing X with ProRes RAW and I await my 1:1 press briefing on Tuesday.

Ned
 
I don't get it, there is RAW and there is RAW that has been altered into Prores Raw?

The name is misleading, RAW is RAW and when the data is converted or altered it isn't RAW anymore. Or am I wrong?


If not, lets call it JAC (Just Another Codec).
 
LennyLevy said:
Have you tech heads been processing all the talk about about the new Apple ProRes RAW codec?

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/04/06/prores-raw-is-here/

Its all a little confusing to me and gets a bit beyond my tech knowledge. But in practical terms I'm wondering what it might mean for me as a n FS7 owner.
How well will the new ProRes Raw codec interface with a camera like the FS7 that outputs 12BIT Raw, but that’s generally been disparaged compared to the 16Bit raw of the F5 and F55.
Adding to my confusion on that is that the Atomos recorder as I understand only accepts 12bit Raw in first place so how will that interface with say the F5 compared to the FS7?
Click to expand...

For FS5/FS7 it really won't change anything except that ProRes RAW is smaller than ProRes HQ, and that FCPX will support it. Other NLEs will likely support ProRes RAW soon enough as well, so you might prefer this new RAW codec over the alternatives.

The FS7 will still only be 12-bit RAW via sdi so I woudn't expect it to be any better or worse then before.

For the F5/F55 it doesn't mean anything at all since SDI doesn't provide anything but 10-bit Ycbcr....
 
Publimix said:
I don't get it, there is RAW and there is RAW that has been altered into Prores Raw?
Click to expand...
I think you are getting it just fine, it's just RAW wrapped in another package.

Of course some people get frantic about the name ProRes.

I am sure if Apple would market ProRes Toilet Paper™ they'd be waiting overnight in line to get the first sheets. :)
 
starcentral said:
The FS7 will still only be 12-bit RAW via sdi so I woudn't expect it to be any better or worse then before.
Click to expand...

It should really be so easy to wrap those 12 bits differently inside the container. Isnt that how FS700 raw is transported? Its still just 12 bit, but the bits are more evenly distributed across the DR that comes out. Compared to the top-heavy and bottom-near-invisible FS7 raw.
 
legrevedotcom said:
Well isnt the main problem with the FS7 raw data that it isnt that great... in other words it doesnt matter what you wrap a turd in, its still turd. You'd still have to buy the annoying xdca to get to prores raw...
Click to expand...


My Sound Ops don't find the xdca annoying. Quite the opposite. They love the xdca because it allows them to use their wireless timecode sync boxes on the camera ( since it provides TC in / out ) and the xdca also provides a means of powering their wireless audio receivers off the camera. I've had Sound Ops who grumbled that they did a job with "some kid' who had an fs7 but no xdca and as a result they were limited in what they could do as Sound Ops, because the shooter had yet to make his fs7 into a "real camera". :laugh:

ruffin' muffin' hipster-doodle young shooters and their cameras lacking any TC In / Out. Just ridiculous, completely inexcusable, and most UNprofessional of them.
 
Yeah, why would anyone be annoyed at the XDCA? The FS7 isn't a real camera without the XDCA. How the hell else am I supposed to use V-mount batteries? Not to mention TC in/out and moving the center of gravity further back where it is supposed to be.
 
JPNola said:
ruffin' muffin' hipster-doodle young shooters and their cameras lacking any TC In / Out. Just ridiculous, completely inexcusable, and most UNprofessional of them.
Click to expand...

you won't believe it but beside your scenario there is also world of professional film makers who neither don't need TC nor want to have the chunk aka XDCA but prefer a light weight flexible setup. I wouldn't call myself ruffin' muffin' hipster-doodle. And not all all young.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Yeah, why would anyone be annoyed at the XDCA? .
Click to expand...

Me. Because half of the time it's on the Ronin. The rest of the time I am shooting corporate stuff handheld (handheld, not shoulder mount) and on the tripod. I don't want the weight of a V-Mount battery and I don't need a timecode. The RAW quality is a joke compared to FS700 RAW. ProRes is only HD and not worth all the effort
 
I'd pay for a new internal board that made one of the SDi into tc and the other into raw - or enabled raw internal - fat chance of course!
 
I wish Sony would redesign an XDCA v.2 to go with the FS7 II, and maybe with whatever replaces the FS7 II. Mayb e incorporate Pro Res RAW in 4K? That way Sony could make money off FS7 owners who might otherwise be tempted by a C200, etc., and from owners who are early adopters of their next model.

I think the attachment looks horrible and ruins the compact feel and look. It sort of resembles a terraced stack of big black boxes growing more and more unstable with each addition. (‘O course I’m one of them rufflin’ mufflin’ skippity do-da hipster doodles doo’s with my fake camera sans XDCD— so don’t take me too seriously.) ��
 
So the end verdict is Prores Raw is called JAC from now (just another codec), and the rufflin mufflin skippity do hipster can choose between 'JAC on' or 'JAC off'.
 
Publimix said:
So the end verdict is Prores Raw is called JAC from now (just another codec), and the rufflin mufflin skippity do hipster can choose between 'JAC on' or 'JAC off'.
Click to expand...

LOL!

But for real, why is the FS700 raw not in an FS7 feature-rich body yet?

With a small eksternal recorder for raw, but hands on internal for everything else... I would swap my FS7 for that camera.
 
Publimix said:
So the end verdict is Prores Raw is called JAC from now (just another codec), and the rufflin mufflin skippity do hipster can choose between 'JAC on' or 'JAC off'.
Click to expand...

I think it might be more accurate to call it JACRAC (Just Another Compressed RAW Acquisition Codec) like RED’s R3D, Canon’s CRL and Sony’s RAW and X-OCN formats.

Only this format apparently can be licensed by other camera vendors, works with existing external recorders, and apparently has stellar NLE support. It’s a shame those other RAW formats are so proprietary.
 
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