Proper technique when using the 442 with a 744T and an HVX

Alex.Mitchell

Alex.Mitchell

Well-known member
Hello all!

I'm a mixer in Calgary, AB and I'm looking for a little advice about a setup that I'm planning to use for an upcoming short film. I've convinced the producer to use dual system sound, but I want them to have something to listen to in the rough edit so I was going to also sent a 2 ch mix to the HVX. Anyway, here's how I think it'll go:

- Inputs: 1=boom/2, 3, 4=lavs
- Direct Outputs 1-4 going to the 744t
- 10 pin output back to the HVX w/ headphone return

Will that sound good and be usable in post? I haven't done 4 channel before, so this is new to me. Any help you guys can give would be appreciated.

P.S. One totally off topic question: is there a reason not to enable output limiters?
 
Your setup is totally fine. 4 ISO to 744T, mix to cam w/ return monitoring.

Another approach would be to send your entire mix to Track#1, Boom to Track#2, Lav1 to Track#3, and a mix of both Lav's 2+3 to Track#4. Depending on how much dialogue is happening during a scene, Lavs 2+3 would have the least amount of lines. This way you have a mix track with 3 ISO for dailies while you also have a mix being sent to cam.

If you know that your sound sources are not generally dynamic, you can disable the OUT limiters. Doesn't hurt to keep them on for safety. One reason NOT to engage the limiters would be during a classical/jazz music recording.
 
Alan H. Chang said:
Your setup is totally fine. 4 ISO to 744T, mix to cam w/ return monitoring.

Another approach would be to send your entire mix to Track#1, Boom to Track#2, Lav1 to Track#3, and a mix of both Lav's 2+3 to Track#4. Depending on how much dialogue is happening during a scene, Lavs 2+3 would have the least amount of lines. This way you have a mix track with 3 ISO for dailies while you also have a mix being sent to cam.

If you know that your sound sources are not generally dynamic, you can disable the OUT limiters. Doesn't hurt to keep them on for safety. One reason NOT to engage the limiters would be during a classical/jazz music recording.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help! So if I wanted to go the route that you're suggesting, would this be my workflow?

Output the entire mix track from the TA3M tape output.
Output lavs 2+3 track from XLR master right (or left).
Output boom from direct output.
Output lav 1 from direct output.

As for the limiter answer, is that because instrument volumes vary so wildly that the attack of the limiter is really noticeable or...?
 
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Alan H. Chang said:
Another approach would be to send your entire mix to Track#1, Boom to Track#2, Lav1 to Track#3, and a mix of both Lav's 2+3 to Track#4. Depending on how much dialogue is happening during a scene, Lavs 2+3 would have the least amount of lines. This way you have a mix track with 3 ISO for dailies while you also have a mix being sent to cam.
Click to expand...
I 2nd this approach.
For a the couple of years I had the 744 this is what I did.
Or I would ..
1- mix
2- boom (or first wire)
3- iso lav
4- iso lav
and the remaining lav or lav's would only live in the mix.

The camera mix should be for on set playback but
before they even start editing they should be syncing your sound
to the clips and ditch the camera feed.

They turn up track 1, leave the other 3 down till post sound.
 
also, if you're doing this by yourself you wont be "mixing"
your boom and lav's live.

So if i had a scene play out that I could get most of it on the boom..
i'd still
label
1- mix (even if its just the boom)
2- lav's that the boom cant get
3- " "
4- " "

I guess this kind of shows you that your scheme is going to be changing
depending on the scene.
Just take good sound reports and if you have time label the tracks in the 744T menu
 
Rippie said:
also, if you're doing this by yourself you wont be "mixing"
your boom and lav's live.

So if i had a scene play out that I could get most of it on the boom..
i'd still
label
1- mix (even if its just the boom)
2- lav's that the boom cant get
3- " "
4- " "

I guess this kind of shows you that your scheme is going to be changing
depending on the scene.
Just take good sound reports and if you have time label the tracks in the 744T menu
Click to expand...

What busses are you using to get those outputs?
 
Alex.Mitchell said:
Thanks for the help! So if I wanted to go the route that you're suggesting, would this be my workflow?

Output the entire mix track from the TA3M tape output.
Output lavs 2+3 track from XLR master right (or left).
Output boom from direct output.
Output lav 1 from direct output.

As for the limiter answer, is that because instrument volumes vary so wildly that the attack of the limiter is really noticeable or...?
Click to expand...

Yes, that workflow scheme would work. Play around with your channels depending on the type shot/scene needed. Make sure to label or take good notes.

The use of the limiter is heavily depended on your end goals. Where is the recording going to end up on? Is this going to a broadcast feed or the sondtrack of a movie? Ending up on CD? Instruments have wider dynamic range than the voice especially when spot mic'ing. We want to capture all the details of the instrument, meaning the limiter should be used sparingly. Voice, however, have offending peaks that aren't exactly needed or as important. It's more constant than an instrument.
 
End goals? End goal is to provide the best, most flexible audio I can, I suppose. It's an independent short so lord knows if anyone will hear it in a theatre, but I want to do the best that I can for post because I know that's where miracles happen. Also, I really like these guys and I'm passionate about my craft, plus I'm just curious about how these things work.
 
Sorry about that end goals part. For example, if the musical recording is going to be broadcasted, hitting the limiters would be advisable only if their going to be playing really hot. In most of these cases, the networks are going to be handling the signal before it goes live so your limiter might or might not help much.

As for narrative stuff, the limiters can help you push your recordings a little hotter without being clipped or distorted. You can set the overall output limiter threshold so that anything beyond that number the limiter would start kickin' in. If the scene has lots of screaming and yelling, hit the limiter. Normal convo wouldn't be necessary, but keep your ears open. Sorry I took it off the wrong way.
 
Alex.Mitchell said:
What busses are you using to get those outputs?
Click to expand...
for the example you quoted
there would be nothing more than direct outs of the 744.

1-boom - (main outs)
2- direct out channel 2
3- direct out channel 3
4-direct out channel 4

for combining signals
i would run my mix with everything panned to the left that I wanted in the mix
and to the right for things I didnt want in the mix but combined in an "iso" (post fader)
and in the center for the things I wanted in both
Obviously you end up with post fader combined "iso's" but it still breaks it free of the mix if you need to go that route

Seriously though
when you end up with multiple sources in a scene you'll be switching up your tracks as needed.

I do enjoy my 788T these days, but I never had an issue assigning things with my 744
Remember the old days when we had 2 tracks total?
(and before my time.. 1!)
 
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