Prop Gun Kills Cinematographer

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Read that a few hours ago. I wonder what happened... The article that I read said that they were not even using blanks in the guns. And it's even more ironic, given the storyline of the movie.
 
Tom Roper said:
It doesn’t add up. A prop gun is not supposed to be lethal. Seems more like criminally negligent homicide.
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It's not supposed to be lethal if it's a toy. Film sets can and do use real guns (but they are obviously not loaded, or shouldn't be, and handled and overseen by professionals).

They all should be disabled to be unable to discharge anything but that's not always the case as we have witnessed in history.

Even firing blanks could injure or kill.
 
The article from Drew Taylor of "The Wrap" says that Hutchins was killed when Alec Baldwin accidentally discharged a prop gun on the New Mexico set. That implies a very dangerous prop gun carelessly managed and/or one that was pointed at Hutchins at the time of the accidental discharge. Either way seems unthinkably reckless. I had been thinking the accident happened during filming, but if not this is even worse. Sympathies to Hutchins family. Infuriating as well, so quick to politicize every shooting of which we all agree are evil and calamitous, yet we are the worst for glorifying guns and violence in every manifestation. Every single night, CSI Miami, New Orleans, NCIS, more than I can name, guns, guns everywhere, glorified! We don't need to be making this kind of content, and if we accept it in our entertainment, then not be so shocked when evil people draw their inspiration from all the ways humans can be cruel.
 
So people left the production because of bad conditions and safety concerns. No "prop master" at the day of shooting. Basically, this is a big "I told you so" from the workers that left, and hopefully the producers (including Baldwin in his capacity as producer, not actor) will be punished. Sure there can be mitigating circumstances and maybe it was just a big fluke thing that it happened (i.e. it would have happened even on a happy big studio set). But judging from the available information, it just seems very likely that the producers simply didn't give a ****. It is another "Midnight Rider".
 
Actor Alec Baldwin was distraught and shocked after fatally shooting a crew member on the set of his latest movie, asking repeatedly why he was given a "hot gun," according to a new report.

My takeaway is that "prop gun" is an industry term, and that any gun used in film is a prop, and that if a real gun is used for a prop it's not going to respect any differently an actor asking why it was loaded than any other ill-trained, reckless handler who would discharge it without regard for the possibility of a live round in the chamber.
 
The story and 'facts' keep changing and none of us are privy to what actually happened. As the stories are so contradictory, we need to wait. In the UK, a non-public gun knowledgeable country, we've used weapons in TV and movies for years, and the big difference is that virtually none of the actors given a gun have ever held one before. Our armourers know this and take great care in showing them how a real weapon with the capability to fire real ammunition does not suddenly become safe when loaded with a blank - especially those that need to use the energy to re-cock themselves and chamber a new round. Common sense should tell people that these are not childrens cap guns that look real - but common sense doesn't work. On one training event we had to do when the cast had to handle and fire guns, the guy training them finished by pointing the gun, with a blank chambered at the white board he'd been using - then fired and knocked it over. He then held up the sheet of A0 paper full of holes. That made it sink in - blanks can damage.

The union reports seem, on investigation, to really have been centred on money, not safety. Clearly, something went wrong, and the authorities will work out who. The fact seems to be a well known actor accidentally killed someone, and that's not something everyone can cope with. I feel for the family who have lost someone dear.
 
paulears said:
The story and 'facts' keep changing and none of us are privy to what actually happened. As the stories are so contradictory, we need to wait. In the UK, a non-public gun knowledgeable country, we've used weapons in TV and movies for years, and the big difference is that virtually none of the actors given a gun have ever held one before. Our armourers know this and take great care in showing them how a real weapon with the capability to fire real ammunition does not suddenly become safe when loaded with a blank - especially those that need to use the energy to re-cock themselves and chamber a new round. Common sense should tell people that these are not childrens cap guns that look real - but common sense doesn't work. On one training event we had to do when the cast had to handle and fire guns, the guy training them finished by pointing the gun, with a blank chambered at the white board he'd been using - then fired and knocked it over. He then held up the sheet of A0 paper full of holes. That made it sink in - blanks can damage.

The union reports seem, on investigation, to really have been centred on money, not safety. Clearly, something went wrong, and the authorities will work out who. The fact seems to be a well known actor accidentally killed someone, and that's not something everyone can cope with. I feel for the family who have lost someone dear.
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I'm not seeing the story and facts constantly changing. What I'm seeing is new information emerging. I haven't read or heard anything contradictory or inconsistent with what I learned on the very first day the news broke. Perhaps we get our news from different outlets. I'm curious... what makes you say the union was only interested in money? I never read that anywhere.
 
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Blanks, live rounds, travelling distance, no payments for travelling time, lack of responsible people, poor production management, crew safety concerns, etc etc. Google has so much disinformation and it comes up in my Facebook feed with sites doing the big headline, poor fact stuff. The facts from one incident, like the brandon lee one, mixed with this one, to incidents where blanks have killed. Now we have the friends of friends popping up with their stories. People here in the UK have no idea about guns so are taking it all in. Rubbish and all!
 
Cool beans. I didn't receive any disinformation, but then again, I don't get my news from rubbish FB.
 
I'm friends with several of the people on the camera crew of the show and have spoken to one of them at length. Just like any news event, information is getting released in spurts from different sources which makes it confusing, but as said above, not necessarily contradictory. There were several instants of broken protocol that led to this most tragic event, namely a live round making its way onto set within a weapon, and then a weapon being handled by an individual who should not have done so and handing it to the actor. It is important to note that the exiting union camera crew had expressed concerns about various aspects of the show included gun safety concerns, which means production was aware there was an issue.

To clarify a misunderstanding above about the presence of a propmaster: the article linked indicated that there was not a UNION propmaster working on the show. That does not mean there was no-one acting in that capacity, it means there was non-union personnel in that slot.
 
People want news and it comes out in dribs ad drabs. Assumptions are made and they are often wrong. We should take the NTSB's approach to plane crashes and form no opinions about the situation until all the facts come out.

All I know is many lives are ruined from this tragedy. Let us all hope the facts come clearly and appropriate actions are taken and lessons are learned. Let's pray that those who are grieving receive comfort and support to get through the strain of the following weeks, months, and years.
 
friend was injured at work with some production machinery. A very serious injury and all the people concerned were told to keep quiet while the authorities did their investigation. So much of what was out there, that hinted at , or directly pointed blame proved to have been in error, and the conclusions we'd all made, based on people we trusted, who were either there or knoew somebody who was, were wrong. The ONLY people who knew said nothing at all. So this will be the same thing. The union crew walking out might be indicative about a poorly run production company - but we just do not know how the tragedy really came about - bar the conclusion.
 
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