hmm I need to watch both again. The only thing Im really dissapointed about is that Prometheus wasn't R rated enough....where was the horror? Other then that I thought it was great and Im looking forward to seeing more of David...in the sequel. This was written like a tv series come to think of it...And today thats what its all about...franchises.
Prometheus trailer
- Thread starter LoganMackay
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Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
There seems to be this overall perception that the people on the ship were the best in their field. Now sure, they might have thought that, but who is to say they absolutely are not. All these people in stasis for how long? 2 years. Then assume it will take 2 years to return. And never once do I remember someone talking about how "good" the pay was going to be, in fact, given they didn't even have a clue as to what they were doing until after they arrived, I doubt they had the best.
And something to consider, David is not evil. His actions of how he treated Shaw have to be examined with his thinking methodology as a robot and his capability to process. So how he treats shaw with the creature inside her, he's probably not sure what exactly to do. He drugs her, but how do you know he doesn't go directly to Weyland to find out what to do? Given that, I feel it makes perfect sense for how that scene plays out. The other people that come with David probably don't even fully understand why they are there.
And pertaining to Alien, the novel adaptation reads:
Ash speaking: “‘I was directed to reroute the Nostromo or make sure that its crew rerouted it from its assigned course so that it would pick up the signal, program Mother to bring you out of hypersleep, and program her memory to feed you the story about the emergency call. Company specialists already knew that the transmission was a warning and not a distress signal."
So it wasn't by accident or by anything other than Company Order 937 that Ash was following specifically.
I agree I think there was a bit too much setup for another movie, but, I still really enjoyed it. People *think* Prometheus spoon fed them with things that seem so cliche at points, but then, I realize that *I* am making those connections that don't exist in the movie. We've finally got people that didn't all stay at the Holiday Inn Express the night before, getting stuck into situations where they have no training, make stupid assumptions, etc.
And again, we have NO clue what David said to the engineer. It could have been "Now we are the masters of the universe!"
And something to consider, David is not evil. His actions of how he treated Shaw have to be examined with his thinking methodology as a robot and his capability to process. So how he treats shaw with the creature inside her, he's probably not sure what exactly to do. He drugs her, but how do you know he doesn't go directly to Weyland to find out what to do? Given that, I feel it makes perfect sense for how that scene plays out. The other people that come with David probably don't even fully understand why they are there.
And pertaining to Alien, the novel adaptation reads:
Ash speaking: “‘I was directed to reroute the Nostromo or make sure that its crew rerouted it from its assigned course so that it would pick up the signal, program Mother to bring you out of hypersleep, and program her memory to feed you the story about the emergency call. Company specialists already knew that the transmission was a warning and not a distress signal."
So it wasn't by accident or by anything other than Company Order 937 that Ash was following specifically.
I agree I think there was a bit too much setup for another movie, but, I still really enjoyed it. People *think* Prometheus spoon fed them with things that seem so cliche at points, but then, I realize that *I* am making those connections that don't exist in the movie. We've finally got people that didn't all stay at the Holiday Inn Express the night before, getting stuck into situations where they have no training, make stupid assumptions, etc.
And again, we have NO clue what David said to the engineer. It could have been "Now we are the masters of the universe!"
clang
Veteran
Prometheus looked fabulous, but the plot/story was very messy. Given all the conflicting and changing publicity from Ridley and the studio re what the film (even changing their mind on whether it was a prequel), I have to suspect major rewrites mid-production, either over creative differences or budget, and the final film isn't quite what was intended.
Funniest dissection of the film: http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/06/robs_prometheus_faq.php
Funniest dissection of the film: http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/06/robs_prometheus_faq.php
CallaghanFilms
Veteran
All's I gotta say is
What the poo poo does slagging mean?
What the poo poo does slagging mean?
This.
People in the showing I went to booed at the end. I thought I saw a great piece of science fiction.
simonpwood
Well-known member
I was a bit worried when I heard that it was written by Damon Lindelof (of 'Lost' fame).
I mean the first season of Lost was brilliantly executed; leading up to The Hatch on the hidden island was amazing. Once they got in The Hatch the show changed direction but was still pretty sweet during the Second Season. The Others were still mysterious, and the whole Dharma Project was pulled off well; we just saw enough to keep us guessing and keep us interested. The Dharma Project was mysterious and captivating because we knew so little about them.
By Season 3 it became obvious the show was derailing. And once they tried to start explaining everything it went over the bridge and crashed. I mean when they went back in time and you actually saw the guys from the Dharma Project the whole illusion was destroyed. Season 2 became redundant. The whole show became redundant.
Anyway, back to Prometheus. I was worried that Lindelof was involved because he might try to ask some big questions; and then actually try to answer them.
The Space Jockey was kind of like the Dharma Project; an enigma that works best when left unexplained....and maybe kind of silly when laid bare....
Imagine if Lost had been cancelled at the end of the second or third season; it would have been one of the most talked about cult shows ever (kind of like the original 'Prisoner' which never had an ending).
Sometimes mysteries work best when they're just mysteries.
I mean the first season of Lost was brilliantly executed; leading up to The Hatch on the hidden island was amazing. Once they got in The Hatch the show changed direction but was still pretty sweet during the Second Season. The Others were still mysterious, and the whole Dharma Project was pulled off well; we just saw enough to keep us guessing and keep us interested. The Dharma Project was mysterious and captivating because we knew so little about them.
By Season 3 it became obvious the show was derailing. And once they tried to start explaining everything it went over the bridge and crashed. I mean when they went back in time and you actually saw the guys from the Dharma Project the whole illusion was destroyed. Season 2 became redundant. The whole show became redundant.
Anyway, back to Prometheus. I was worried that Lindelof was involved because he might try to ask some big questions; and then actually try to answer them.
The Space Jockey was kind of like the Dharma Project; an enigma that works best when left unexplained....and maybe kind of silly when laid bare....
Imagine if Lost had been cancelled at the end of the second or third season; it would have been one of the most talked about cult shows ever (kind of like the original 'Prisoner' which never had an ending).
Sometimes mysteries work best when they're just mysteries.
Name's Luke Y'all
Active member
I liked the movie, though it's not a classic.
It's only thought-provoking if you're five years old. Standard cast-out-of-heaven sh!t.
It's only thought-provoking if you're five years old. Standard cast-out-of-heaven sh!t.
As I was waking up this morning, a thought occurred to me... What if "the cat is still in the bag" on Prometheus?
Here's what I'm thinking:
- In the book Prometheus: The Art of the Film there is an illustrated film sequence of the Engineer that sacrifices himself being "programmed" by another race of humanoid creatures ( that resemble the "Emperor" from Star Wars ), I'll call these creatures "the Gods" of Prometheus. The "Gods" are the ones that pilot the UFO we see hovering above the waterfall at the start of Prometheus. We can see the "God" programming the Engineer by placing his palm upon his forehead. ( I wonder if we will see this "God" sequence in the director's-cut version of Prometheus with the additional 23 minutes of footage, which will probably be released on Blu-ray before Xmas this year )
- What if the "Engineers" are the worker-bees of that civilization and the "Gods" are ones that run the show, and thus Engineers are easily sacrificed for the greater good.
- Given that the ending of Prometheus is a direct lead-in to exploring the Engineer's home world in the "first" sequel, who would be the best director to deliver a sequel about a completely alien culture in IMAX 3D? A director that has already proven he can do this, and who might already be very familiar with the "Alien" universe? A director that was recorded on camera saying he would love to direct the sequel to Prometheus. ( it was an Entertainment Tonight like piece I saw on YouTube )
- Lets say a few years ago Ridley Scott and Fox were in discussions about Scott developing another "Alien" movie, and Scott says that he doesn't want to do another "Alien" movie as the franchise has been done to death, but he would be willing to tell another story that takes place within the "Alien" universe. As Scott thinks about starting a completely different path within the "Alien" universe, he realizes that he wants to do something much larger than just one film, that he wants to do a trilogy. Lets say Scott contacts James Cameron "Mr. Avatar" to see if he would be interested in developing a new series of films that take place within the "Alien" universe, but tell a completely different story. Cameron signs on to direct the first sequel, a film about the Engineer's home world, that will utilize the skillset that Cameron developed in the making of Avatar.
- As for the "second" sequel, the third and final film of the Prometheus trilogy, it will be about "the Gods" of Prometheus, the ancient civilization that explores/controls much of the universe, that travels in the UFO disc that we briefly see at the start of Prometheus.
...Yes, this is a huge long shot of speculation on my part, but it's obvious that a Prometheus sequel is being primed if Prometheus does well at the box office ( a safe bet ), and that a lot more has been designed that was never in the Prometheus film we saw. There's a link that I saw in a discussion thread on the PrometheusForum.net Website, that leads to a website with many design illustrations of the Engineer's home world, and these look a lot like film pre-production sketches. ( wish I had bookmarked that link )
Here's what I'm thinking:
- In the book Prometheus: The Art of the Film there is an illustrated film sequence of the Engineer that sacrifices himself being "programmed" by another race of humanoid creatures ( that resemble the "Emperor" from Star Wars ), I'll call these creatures "the Gods" of Prometheus. The "Gods" are the ones that pilot the UFO we see hovering above the waterfall at the start of Prometheus. We can see the "God" programming the Engineer by placing his palm upon his forehead. ( I wonder if we will see this "God" sequence in the director's-cut version of Prometheus with the additional 23 minutes of footage, which will probably be released on Blu-ray before Xmas this year )
- What if the "Engineers" are the worker-bees of that civilization and the "Gods" are ones that run the show, and thus Engineers are easily sacrificed for the greater good.
- Given that the ending of Prometheus is a direct lead-in to exploring the Engineer's home world in the "first" sequel, who would be the best director to deliver a sequel about a completely alien culture in IMAX 3D? A director that has already proven he can do this, and who might already be very familiar with the "Alien" universe? A director that was recorded on camera saying he would love to direct the sequel to Prometheus. ( it was an Entertainment Tonight like piece I saw on YouTube )
- Lets say a few years ago Ridley Scott and Fox were in discussions about Scott developing another "Alien" movie, and Scott says that he doesn't want to do another "Alien" movie as the franchise has been done to death, but he would be willing to tell another story that takes place within the "Alien" universe. As Scott thinks about starting a completely different path within the "Alien" universe, he realizes that he wants to do something much larger than just one film, that he wants to do a trilogy. Lets say Scott contacts James Cameron "Mr. Avatar" to see if he would be interested in developing a new series of films that take place within the "Alien" universe, but tell a completely different story. Cameron signs on to direct the first sequel, a film about the Engineer's home world, that will utilize the skillset that Cameron developed in the making of Avatar.
- As for the "second" sequel, the third and final film of the Prometheus trilogy, it will be about "the Gods" of Prometheus, the ancient civilization that explores/controls much of the universe, that travels in the UFO disc that we briefly see at the start of Prometheus.
...Yes, this is a huge long shot of speculation on my part, but it's obvious that a Prometheus sequel is being primed if Prometheus does well at the box office ( a safe bet ), and that a lot more has been designed that was never in the Prometheus film we saw. There's a link that I saw in a discussion thread on the PrometheusForum.net Website, that leads to a website with many design illustrations of the Engineer's home world, and these look a lot like film pre-production sketches. ( wish I had bookmarked that link )
Even if you read this, and that's what Ridley Scott intended, and you understood all of it before you saw the movie, it wouldnt' make it a good story. It would still be very bad writing, IMO. You can put all of the symbolism and imagery in a movie you want to. That doesn't substitute for a story, it's supposed to add to it.
Probably would have cleared everything up if we'd seen the alien's dong:
THE RECAP FAQ:
Okay, maybe you should just start from the beginning.
Some super-buff, pale blue dude walks a planet that is probably Earth but isn't necessarily, takes off a Jedi robe he's wearing some reason, drinks some black goop, disintegrates into his component DNA and starts life and evolution.
...okay. Is it Dr. Manhattan?
Couldn't see his dong; I don't know for sure.
Eric Boellner
Well-known member
This seems like an extended rant against Prometheus, rather than an actual discussion of screenwriting technique. Maybe better suited for the Film Discussion section, no?
-JMT
-JMT
Whatever section you think is appropriate, but the discussion here has been primarily about the story, not about acting, direction, set design, camera moves, casting, wardrobe, cinematography, etc.
I learned something really interesting in this thread about writing.
Generally you think of re-writes as a way to hone the story, make it better, add in set ups for later scenes, and so forth. But it's also important that if you do a re-write you make sure you haven't pulled out elements of the story that are important without replacing them with something else if need be.
Did taking out the Space Jesus scenes add to the mystery of the movie, or just create giant plot holes? Obviously that's going to be subjective and people are on both sides of that fence.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
I would have thought that title of the thread would have given it away that people have seen it...
Batutta
Major Contributor
But that just replaces stupid with more stupid. Either they are the best, and act like idiots. Or they were idiots for sending idiots on possibly the most important mission ever undertaken by man. But I'm not even concerned wether or not they were the best in their field. Nothing they did adhered to any standards of scientific inquiry. They were reckless, jumped to conclusions with no evidence, and even acted contrary to their previous behavior at times. Their behavior would have been find if they were space miners. They were all scientists, and even mediocre scientists follow the scientific method. It's what happens when hard science-ficiton is done by people with no understanding of science. If one of them had acted that way, that would have been fine. But they were all pretty dumb. Like in Aliens, it was hilarious to have one cowardly Marine in Hudson. Now imagine if every Marine acted like Hudson.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
But they weren't all scientists working in their fields. Two of them were either archeologists or paleontologists who worked on earth, at least from what we are given, not other planets. So having some sort of protocol for space exploration isn't something they are probably too familiar with. One of them is disappointed not to find anything but another tomb he believes. He set himself up for finding so much more, and I assume by the conversations with Weyland daughter, that getting this trip to happen wasn't easy for them. People probably didn't believe their findings like how Weyland's daughter sounded doubtful they would find anything (and she didn't seem to want to be there, she was just waiting for her father to die).
When they experiment on the head, again, it's not the scientists/doctor making the calls but an archeologist/paleontologist who has been put in charge by Weyland (mostly). For me, part of the point IS that the crew isn't a team. It's a rag tag group that didn't even know each other that Weyland put together with secrecy. Because they make one stupid decision after another, that's what allows it to make sense. If they had done smart things, then stupid things, then smart things, or one person had been making good decisions, then none of it would have made ANY sense, but it does, because the WHOLE mission is a train wreck, and that's how it plays out.
If someone came to me and said, hey, I've got this really cool thing I need your skills for, but I can't tell you anything about it. You'll be away from those you love from 4 to 5 years in deep space, are you interested? My answer would be no myself.
I like the fact the movie didn't spoon feed me with HUGE stereotypes that wrote the characters themselves. Because if they did, then everyone would be saying "Man, this movie is too much like Aliens, all the characters are just stereotypes" which aliens most definitely was (and it's my favorite movie). I didn't want the same movie over, I wanted something different, which I was given.
I think some of the motivations are there, it's just you are seeing it AS an observer. Like in older movies from the 50s, 60s and 70s where they allow you to figure stuff out and not have to Christopher Nolan you to death explaining EVERY LITTLE DETAIL.
But, I recognize maybe I just like this sort of film, like I like David Lynch films. I've also worked as a research scientist for 4 years and I can tell you, if you think all scientists apply the scientific method to things they do, you are most definitely wrong. It really depends on the type of science.
Why are you reading this thread if you haven't seen the movie yet?
refocusedmedia
Veteran
Anyone seen this yet?
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Prom...swered-Questions-31317.html#comment-552538474
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Prom...swered-Questions-31317.html#comment-552538474
Ian-T
Veteran
- Well, I don’t think I mentioned that I didn’t see the movie.
- ….but honestly I didn’t..
- I want to gauge from others “why” they liked or disliked it before I decide to spend the money now….or later
- I came here to see if others shared the same sentiment as to whether or not the movie was “thought provoking or just bad writing” based on the thread title
- I guess I’m just used to seeing a Spoiler Warning in posts with topics like this (even in articles from legit sources)
- I’m really not complaining for me however because I’m one who can read through all spoiler warnings and still enjoy a movie. My concern was for others who decided to take the plunge.
Cinemablend said:
Ridley Scott has said that it isn't "necessarily" Earth (or along those lines). It doesn't make sense anyway, because if it is Earth, its far too along in its development (the land/water looks pretty clear to me, no primordial "soup"). Frankly, I'd cut that opening scene because unless it's explicitly meant to be Earth (which again, makes no sense) the movie "language" lends itself to that idea because we transition to future Scotland from this scene.