Processing Audio Dialogue for film

[Tracey Lee]

After you have captured your dialogue with a shotgun mic, what is it you should do in post processing to give it that film sound? I am just comparing my audio samples with movie dialogue and there is something about it that I can't quite put my finger on.

Any thoughts or experience?

 

[Gohanto]

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=172106

 

[Tracey Lee]

What about EQ settings? There are obviously certain frequencies that are enhanced and diminished. Anyone know?

 

[JordanBlock]

Any EQ depends completely on the sound you're dealing with. There's not like a standard "boost x, cut y, and it sounds like a movie."

If you can post a sample, someone may be able to give you some things to try for your current project.

 

[unclebob6958]

There is no "magic" formula. In one scene each individual line of dialog may have a different EQ (and other processing) so that the entire scene is smooth and consistent.

You may be referring to the 4kHz "bump" to help the dialog cut through a dense mix, but I have found - at least at the indie level - that the production dialog is usually so "honky" that I am sucking mids out rather than adding them.

It all comes down to your experience and your ears - and your audio playback system and your listening environment.

 

[Tim Joy]

I'm interested in this topic too, and while I certainly understand that every situation is different which makes it impossible to give 'general rules', I could benefit by learning some new tricks that I haven't thought of or ever heard about.

Some ideas for discussion-

-Handling noisy tracks and using a noise gate, noise reduction. Tools and tricks...? Do you use a noise gate always? Or only when needed? Best NR plugins?
-high freq rolloff? Where should it go to?
-Low freq rolloff?
-adding room verb?


I think some audio examples of before and after would really help, if anyone is will to do this, I could host files on my site.

 

[Gohanto]

I'm interested in this topic too, and while I certainly understand that every situation is different which makes it impossible to give 'general rules', I could benefit by learning some new tricks that I haven't thought of or ever heard about.

Some ideas for discussion-

-Handling noisy tracks and using a noise gate, noise reduction. Tools and tricks...? Do you use a noise gate always? Or only when needed? Best NR plugins?
-high freq rolloff? Where should it go to?
-Low freq rolloff?
-adding room verb?


I think some audio examples of before and after would really help, if anyone is will to do this, I could host files on my site.

Dialog Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art
By: John Purcell

Excellent book and covers most of how to smooth out dialog.

Overall, the vast majority of work done with production audio is damage control even in Hollywood. Removing clicks, smoothing transitions, room tone continuity, ect... these add up to create a great track, but the addition of backgrounds, Foley, FX, ect... really do add up to give a "Hollywood" sound too many people attribute to simply the dialog tracks.

And finally, many actors simply have naturally interesting voices. James Earl Jones, Morgan Freeman, ect...

 

[Brad S.]

-Handling noisy tracks and using a noise gate, noise reduction. Tools and tricks...? Do you use a noise gate always? Or only when needed? Best NR plugins?

Here is a link to a short article about noise reduction, but the main thing is that having a bunch of different elements take out small bits rather than one noise reduction tool try to tackle everything. Just like anything else, different tools handle jobs better than others. Notch filters (really narrow EQ) are good for hums and buzzes that occur at select frequencies. In the US, the common problem is 60hz hum, so it may help to notch out multiples of 60hz (60, 120, 180, 240, etc.). Hi Pass/Lo Cut Filters are good for getting rid of excessive rumble, but be careful that you aren't taking out the low end of the characters voice. Generally I think you're OK taking out 85hz and below, but for some deeper voiced actors that may be too much.

I never ever use a gate… but I like expanders :happy:. Gate's don't work because of the drastic on/off response. I'll use an expander on each track during the mix to reduce the noise in between lines by about 6-8 db (or less depending on the content). Some people don't like expanders because they can hear them working, which can be a problem with trying to take out too much. A lot of the big film mixers use expanders as part of their arsenal. They can also be used to help create that "film sound" by very subtly reducing some of the transient peaks at the start of lines, therefore warming up the sound. When I say reducing the transient peaks, I mean the very very tip of the start of the transient.

The best NR tool that I've seen is a Cedar box, but they start at around $3000 I believe so that is out of most people's budgets. Izotope RX has been mentioned and it seems to be a pretty good low cost tool.

-high freq rolloff? Where should it go to?

I've never really gotten good results from low pass/hi cut filters. Some people use them for removing hiss, but they seem to dull the dialog too much for my tastes. If I stay high enough to not affect the dialog too much, it doesn't remove enough hiss to really be much use. Maybe I'm just using it wrong?

-Low freq rolloff?

See first response.

-adding room verb?

That again depends on what you're trying to do. You may need to add some subtle verb to a lav track when cutting between a lav and a boom. ADR will usually need some sort of short verb to match interiors. Or you can add a global verb to everything for an effect or to simulate a very large interior space. I've found that the two main things for matching verbs to interior room spaces is the length of the decay and the amount of pre-delay. It helps to start with a factory pre set that most closely matches what you are going for, and then tweak from there.

 

[Tracey Lee]

I am working on a workflow for final cut and soundtrack pro using the basic tools from reducing the noise to adding a slight stereo spread then flattening the bass in EQ. Little tweaks in several tools is getting me the best results. I also found that if you have a background or music track with dialogue you can ditch the music at around 2.5 - 3khz and slightly enhance the dialog in the same freqs and you will be able to hear the dialog over the music no problem.

 

[dre83]

One magic word: play and have fun (ok, that are 4....)

 

[carlone]

Here in LA I'd say 95% of features are mixed in Pro Tools. This includes temps, pre dubs, foley, dialog editing, background layering, sound design and of course the final mix.

Cedar is the standard for noise reduction period. Sonic solutions makes a great plug-in for pro tools that works very well for realtime noise reduction. Always print the effected tracks to new audio tracks because the plug-in has quite a bit of delay.

As others have already said - there's no magic bullet for film sound. If there was I'd say it starts in production using high quality mic's, mixers and portable recorders. That's 70% of the "film sound" IMHO.

Rolling out the low frequencies - small bumps in the upper mids are the norm but they totally depend on the sound at hand.

Balancing or controlling the low end rumble is a major part of the "film experience" and isn't always noticeable until you are on a high quality audio system. In other words, not on headphones or speakers plugged into the 1/8 jack on your computer. You need high quality convertors to reproduce what's going on so you know what's really there. Is that hiss in the audio or the cheap sound card your using.

This may be controversial but: ..... Mixing your film's audio in FCP, AVID, Premier, Vegas or any NLE is not a film mix. These NLE's are optimized for Video playback and often have a preference for audio quality on playback (generally set to low so there's more CPU for video). Just getting the audio out of these NLE's into Pro Tools you'll hear a significant difference. Sort of like trying to Color Correct on a monitor that's not calibrated - you're missing something.

Reverbs are critical in film mixing - it's not unusual to find 8-10 high end TL Space (convolution based reverb plug-ins) on feature mixes PLUS they may still have a hardware lexicon or TC reverb inline.

In essence the "film sound" is a combination of processes that start at the beginning of the production through the final mix and dolby delivery encoding.

 

[atomick]

Absolutely check out Purcell's "Dialog Editing for Motion Pictures" for some great advice. The thread mentioned in the first response is full of great advice. Noise reduction is very useful as well.

Finally-mastered audio for any media is not just EQ'd, but is compressed and limited (more the former than the latter) to create a beefier sound...but there are fewer standards for loudness in features than for TV and CD-Audio. Compressing and limiting is so so very easy to overdo, but they're very powerful tools for creating more oomph.

I gotta say, though, that the original production audio is the most important. If the mics are decent and absolutely to-the-millimeter as close as they can be to the talent without getting in-frame, and is perfectly on-axis for the mic type used, that's the best recipe for great audio. Audio can, and is, heavily processed during the mixing stage, but that "presence" has to be there in the original recording as well.

 

[ryanjf]

I never ever use a gate… but I like expanders :happy:. Gate's don't work because of the drastic on/off response. I'll use an expander on each track during the mix to reduce the noise in between lines by about 6-8 db (or less depending on the content). Some people don't like expanders because they can hear them working, which can be a problem with trying to take out too much. A lot of the big film mixers use expanders as part of their arsenal. They can also be used to help create that "film sound" by very subtly reducing some of the transient peaks at the start of lines, therefore warming up the sound. When I say reducing the transient peaks, I mean the very very tip of the start of the transient.

The best NR tool that I've seen is a Cedar box, but they start at around $3000 I believe so that is out of most people's budgets. Izotope RX has been mentioned and it seems to be a pretty good low cost tool.


I've never really gotten good results from low pass/hi cut filters. Some people use them for removing hiss, but they seem to dull the dialog too much for my tastes. If I stay high enough to not affect the dialog too much, it doesn't remove enough hiss to really be much use. Maybe I'm just using it wrong?

Couldn't agree any more! Gates drop off too much for me.

The reason for the 60Hz buzz is because of ground looping. Also, that's what PG&E (or your version of your electricity provider) gives you from the wall outlet @ 110Vrms. There is a voltage potential between two pieces of equipment. Usually a ground lift can solve this, but most equipment do not have that ability.

 

[Alan H. Chang]

I am working on a workflow for final cut and soundtrack pro using the basic tools from reducing the noise to adding a slight stereo spread then flattening the bass in EQ. Little tweaks in several tools is getting me the best results.

Little tweaks at multiple passes is better than large noise removal at one pass, this will introduce the least amount of artifacts in your material.

I also found that if you have a background or music track with dialogue you can ditch the music at around 2.5 - 3khz and slightly enhance the dialog in the same freqs and you will be able to hear the dialog over the music no problem.

Yup, that's mixing. Giving each element their own space in the soundtrack.

Listen and listen more. Once you've calibrated your monitors, sit back and listen to the material to see if any processing is needed. Not all of the takes or clips need processing, but try to match shot to shot.

Your BG noise needs to be constant and smooth.