Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
- Thread starter disjecta
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
Doesn't matter. Just always use THIN when using squeeze, never use THICK with squeeze.
Doesn't matter. Just always use THIN when using squeeze, never use THICK with squeeze.
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
can someone help me out?
I'm trying to crop my footage via ppro 1.5 (to 720x372), by using the crop on export and both the crop and clip effects, but didn't find satisfaction with my results.
Is there a way to crop by inputing the desired dimensions and the program automatically takes away the letterbox, or a way of seeing what the dimensions will be based on my crop/clip actions?
Much thanks.
can someone help me out?
I'm trying to crop my footage via ppro 1.5 (to 720x372), by using the crop on export and both the crop and clip effects, but didn't find satisfaction with my results.
Is there a way to crop by inputing the desired dimensions and the program automatically takes away the letterbox, or a way of seeing what the dimensions will be based on my crop/clip actions?
Much thanks.
ulisses
Well-known member
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
what I'm trying to understand here is: 16x9 is 720x640 (almost a square image ???)
I know there is a video resolutiom limit, but I was thinking in something like 900x486.
How the Y resolution converts in a X resolution ?
(another thing, I'll do some tests in my compositing software Digital Fusion, it has some resize methods and I'll compare with photozoom, since it work direct with film footage on any resolution)
Thanks,
Ulisses
what I'm trying to understand here is: 16x9 is 720x640 (almost a square image ???)
I know there is a video resolutiom limit, but I was thinking in something like 900x486.
How the Y resolution converts in a X resolution ?
(another thing, I'll do some tests in my compositing software Digital Fusion, it has some resize methods and I'll compare with photozoom, since it work direct with film footage on any resolution)
Thanks,
Ulisses
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
yeah, please post your findings....however, i've seen nothing compared to the algorithms used by s-spline.
Probably the closest scaling upward that a pixel based image can be when in comparison to vector images.
Idunno, it's like a digital magnifying lense to me, lol.
yeah, please post your findings....however, i've seen nothing compared to the algorithms used by s-spline.
Probably the closest scaling upward that a pixel based image can be when in comparison to vector images.
Idunno, it's like a digital magnifying lense to me, lol.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
[quote author=ulisses link=board=Events;num=1097870435;start=135#144 date=12/29/04 at 19:16:08]what I'm trying to understand here is: 16x9 is 720x640 (almost a square image ???)[/quote]
Not sure what you mean.
All DV is 720x480 (in NTSC territory, in PAL it's 720x576) whether it's 4x3 or 16x9. The # of pixels don't change; the SHAPE of the pixels change.
If you're using a square-pixel-only program to create graphics, then you might need to render them at 864x480, but when you go to merge them onto 16:9 video that clip will get stretched down to 720x480.
[quote author=ulisses link=board=Events;num=1097870435;start=135#144 date=12/29/04 at 19:16:08]what I'm trying to understand here is: 16x9 is 720x640 (almost a square image ???)[/quote]
Not sure what you mean.
All DV is 720x480 (in NTSC territory, in PAL it's 720x576) whether it's 4x3 or 16x9. The # of pixels don't change; the SHAPE of the pixels change.
If you're using a square-pixel-only program to create graphics, then you might need to render them at 864x480, but when you go to merge them onto 16:9 video that clip will get stretched down to 720x480.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
Ulisses, where are you planning to view this footage? If you're viewing it on a computer monitor, you'd want 864x480. But if you're viewing it on a widescreen television, it *has* to be 720x480 -- that's the size that DV is, and 720x480 is the proper size for a 16:9 image that's displayed on a widescreen NTSC television.
Ulisses, where are you planning to view this footage? If you're viewing it on a computer monitor, you'd want 864x480. But if you're viewing it on a widescreen television, it *has* to be 720x480 -- that's the size that DV is, and 720x480 is the proper size for a 16:9 image that's displayed on a widescreen NTSC television.
ulisses
Well-known member
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
Ok,
Let me try to understand...
DV NTSC is 720x480 and aspect of 1.111111
DV 16x9 is 720x480 but aspect of 0.833333
so the footage is recorded in letterbox with black areas and we stretch vertically from 480 to 640 to fill the video frame.
to watch in a standard TV, is it better than squeezed ? shouldn't be better to record all the video resolution and resize down to letterbox instead of resizing it up ?
Thanks again,
Ulisses
Ok,
Let me try to understand...
DV NTSC is 720x480 and aspect of 1.111111
DV 16x9 is 720x480 but aspect of 0.833333
so the footage is recorded in letterbox with black areas and we stretch vertically from 480 to 640 to fill the video frame.
to watch in a standard TV, is it better than squeezed ? shouldn't be better to record all the video resolution and resize down to letterbox instead of resizing it up ?
Thanks again,
Ulisses
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
DV NTSC is 720x480.
In 4:3 the pixel aspect ratio is roughly .90. That means the pixels are taller than they are wide, and 720 of them fit in the space where mathematically, using square pixels, only 640 would fit. (640 x 480 is a mathematical 4:3)
In 16:9 it's also 720x480, but the pixel aspect ratio is 1.2. The pixels are wider than they are tall. 720x1.2 = 864, so if you were going to simulate 16:9 on a square-pixel device you'd have to use 864x480. But because on television the pixels are interpreted as wider than they are tall, the full screen is filled from 720 pixels.
Stretching from 480 up to 640 means that the central non-letterboxed portion is now 480 pixels tall. You then slice off the extra pixels, leaving you with 720 x 480.
And the whole purpose of resizing up is to get a fullscreen anamorphic picture. If you letterbox it, you're not using the full television screen.
DV NTSC is 720x480.
In 4:3 the pixel aspect ratio is roughly .90. That means the pixels are taller than they are wide, and 720 of them fit in the space where mathematically, using square pixels, only 640 would fit. (640 x 480 is a mathematical 4:3)
In 16:9 it's also 720x480, but the pixel aspect ratio is 1.2. The pixels are wider than they are tall. 720x1.2 = 864, so if you were going to simulate 16:9 on a square-pixel device you'd have to use 864x480. But because on television the pixels are interpreted as wider than they are tall, the full screen is filled from 720 pixels.
Stretching from 480 up to 640 means that the central non-letterboxed portion is now 480 pixels tall. You then slice off the extra pixels, leaving you with 720 x 480.
And the whole purpose of resizing up is to get a fullscreen anamorphic picture. If you letterbox it, you're not using the full television screen.
ulisses
Well-known member
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
ok,
you are saying X pixel aspect (0.90 and 1.2)
I'm saying Y pixel aspect (1.1111 and 0.8333)
the same result...
if authoring a DVD in 16x9 and user hasa standard 4x3 TV, the quality will be better with this method ? Or using direct the DVX letterbox does the job ?
Thanks,
Ulisses
ok,
you are saying X pixel aspect (0.90 and 1.2)
I'm saying Y pixel aspect (1.1111 and 0.8333)
the same result...
if authoring a DVD in 16x9 and user hasa standard 4x3 TV, the quality will be better with this method ? Or using direct the DVX letterbox does the job ?
Thanks,
Ulisses
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
The whole point of this thread was to try to get results that are better than squeeze mode, for making 16x9 images without having to use the anamorphic adapter.
If you know that the user has a 4x3 TV, then just shooting letterbox mode in the first place should provide the highest quality. But if you want to make something that can play on a 16x9 TV, that's where this method may be preferable.
The whole point of this thread was to try to get results that are better than squeeze mode, for making 16x9 images without having to use the anamorphic adapter.
If you know that the user has a 4x3 TV, then just shooting letterbox mode in the first place should provide the highest quality. But if you want to make something that can play on a 16x9 TV, that's where this method may be preferable.
smithy
Well-known member
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
Was wondering if using vegas to do this method that instead of using a tif file to go to photozoom pro ...use another export as a PNG file and put back into vegas as a tif or png file. Has anyone tried it? Vegas recommend still images as a PNG file for the alpha channel information. Any ideas?
EDIT: Well tried using it as PNG out but no luck on Vegas so I used a .mov out from Vegas to aftereffects 5.0- did PNG/Tif and back as both Tif and PNG- found noise in the clip. Granted i'm using a stock clip so it could be bad from the beginning. Tried it both 23.976 and 29.970 out and found that the 23.976 to be softer and cleaner. As between PNG and Tiff no difference in output.
Was wondering if using vegas to do this method that instead of using a tif file to go to photozoom pro ...use another export as a PNG file and put back into vegas as a tif or png file. Has anyone tried it? Vegas recommend still images as a PNG file for the alpha channel information. Any ideas?
EDIT: Well tried using it as PNG out but no luck on Vegas so I used a .mov out from Vegas to aftereffects 5.0- did PNG/Tif and back as both Tif and PNG- found noise in the clip. Granted i'm using a stock clip so it could be bad from the beginning. Tried it both 23.976 and 29.970 out and found that the 23.976 to be softer and cleaner. As between PNG and Tiff no difference in output.
Re: Procedure for uprezzing 4x3 letterbox to 16x9
i would assume that its because the 16X9 shape is like the shape of a letter.. like a piece of mail. pillarbox is called that cause the balck bars are like pillars.
eidt: "balck" is a country in the mountians where that word means "black" and "eidt" is a word in egyptian that means "to make a crorrection or.. edit" .."neil" in ancient europeanese means "types like a chicken with one leg and no eyes"
i would assume that its because the 16X9 shape is like the shape of a letter.. like a piece of mail. pillarbox is called that cause the balck bars are like pillars.
eidt: "balck" is a country in the mountians where that word means "black" and "eidt" is a word in egyptian that means "to make a crorrection or.. edit" .."neil" in ancient europeanese means "types like a chicken with one leg and no eyes"