Problems with video transfer by firewire

J

johnfike

New member
I'm hoping someone can give some insight on how to troubleshoot the following problem with transferring video to a PC by firewire.

I have had two of the DVX100A video cameras for about five years. I love them! They have performed admirably. Transfer of video from camera to computer has never been a problem.

Suddenly, yesterday, I have to transfer video from a shoot. Same computer, same firewire connector. Now there's no recognition by the computer of the camera. What's going on?

My backup system is 2 Canons -- one is a ZR20 and the other is a ZR40. So I get out the Canons, load up the DV cassette from one of the Panasonics in one of them. Use the firewire to connect to the PC. Great, it goes, I transfer the video. Next cassette, load it up. No connection! No recognition by the computer.

I get out the 2nd Canon and the 2nd DVX100A. Loading the cassette to be transferred into each of them, I still get no response on the firewire. No recognition by the computer.

Next backup, I go to another computer. Take the 2nd Canon, load up the cassette with the video to be transferred. Firewire works perfectly, so I download that video onto this second computer. All OK. Video captured just fine. Just a little wierd.

So just to make sure, and to perhaps catch any problems that are not obvious, I try again to use the firewire to transfer video from the cassette onto computer, with both of the Canons and both of the Panasonics, and on both computers. Now I am unable to get either computer to acknowledge any of the four cameras! I change firewires, using 2 new ones never been used, right out of the Canon boxes. No luck here either. So four cameras, two PCs and three firewires, and a partridge in a pear tree: and no capability to transfer the video to PC.

I'm hoping some readers of this thread might have had enough experience with your DVX100As, or any kind of firewire transfers to PC for that matter, to be able to tell me how I can effectively troubleshoot this problem. At the moment I apparently don't have any way to get video off any of the cameras onto either of the computers. Yet one time, each Canon, on each computer, it worked. And it ALWAYS use to work, without fail or flaws for the past 8 years. I'm stuck. And in a panic, because I've got another shoot coming up in a week and really need to solve this problem.

Is there something about firewires I am not knowing or seeing? Something about the IEEE1394 connection to the cameras? Computers? How about the possibility of static electricity? I try to ground myself frequently when doing these kinds of things. I've built two computers recently without problems.

Thanks for any help you can give on this. I appreciate it greatly!



John Fike


johnfike@philanthropysolutions.com
Ypsilanti, MI
 
So, you connect the Firewire cable while BOTH the computer and camera are powered off, correct? Firewire is very sensitive to power and the interfaces on both the camera and computer can pretty easily be blown out if you try to connect devices that are already powered on.
 
Thanks, Joshua,

I was not careful on this point, powering down both computer and camera, then connecting the firewire, and then powering both up after the connection was made.

So, I've likely blown the interfaces on four cameras and two computers?

One question I have with that is that in the past 8 years, with all the cameras, I must have been extremely lucky, because generally the computer is running all the itme, I just generally set up the camera, plugged in the firewire and transferred the video. Of course, I'll admit that generally the firewire was always attached to the one computer -- it didn't move. And during this little episode I was re-attaching the firewire to computers that were already powered up.

Any remedy for this little problem or advice?

Regards,

John Fike
 
Are you attempting to capture to an external hard drive that is also connected to the computer via firewire?

If I read you right, you've used more than one firewire cable. Is that correct? If not, it could be a bad cable.

It seems that something is flaky somewhere, since it seems to occasionally work fine, then quit. Once it quits, does it ever work fine on that camera/pc/cable combination again?

Have to admit, this is a tricky one. Though it's true that connecting the camera while the PC is turned on can blow the firewire port (on either the camera, the PC or both), it seems a bit unlikely that it would proceed to blow out multiple cameras and multiple computers. Stranger things have happened, though.

I suppose what might have happened is that your original firewire cable developed a short. That short could have blown the firewire port on your PC. If you took that cable and connected it to a different PC, it would likely blow that firewire port as well -- which would explain all of your symptoms.

Go buy a firewire card. They're pretty cheap. Install it. Use one of the brand new firewire cables. With the power OFF on the PC and the camcorder, connect the cam to the PC. Boot up the PC. Once Windows is fully loaded, power on the cam. See if that works.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for your thoughts, chapelgrove. Yes, once it quits on a given computer, it doesn't work again.

Separate firewires for the two computers. That is, I kept a different firewire with each computer in the experiments.

I will definitely try your suggestion about a new firewire card and new firewire cable, then powering all down, connect firewire, then power up. But what if the problem is in one or all of the camera connections?

Is there a remedy for the cameras if their firewire connection is blown? Can it be repaired?

Many thanks for your thoughts on this problem

John Fike
 
Hello John,
I ve fried once the firewire port of a canon mvx35i. In my case it was a wrong connection inside the pc but it was a new built system so the cause was obvious. In your case things are complicated since you were working normally in the past. Static discharge could be the problem but the real question is what caused it...anything strange with the power suplly of your house lately...?As a part of troubleshooting, have u tried to connect your cameras together via firewire?
Anyway I hope you didnt burn your cameras ports because although they can be fixed...it can be realy expensive...( I paid 400e for that canon, dont wanna know what I d have to pay if it was the dvx)...
Finaly, you may wanna check this out...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...PT_1FW_PT1FW_Spark_Guard_Pro_DV.html#features
Good luck!!!
 
Thank you, Lyrov. That B&H link for the firewire static guard looks like exactly the thing I'm looking for going forward. Is it your thought that this would protect both the computer and the camera attached to it, or just the computer alone?

You mentioned connecting two cameras by firewire. I'm interested in trying that as a way to perhaps understand which of my 4 cameras have had their output circuitry blown. But firewires typically don't come with the camera attachment socket at both ends, do they? Where might I find such a connector?

The power supply for the house here has been constant, and all outlets are surge protected. So I'm thinking that the probability for that having caused the problem is slight. But static electricity this time of year in Michigan is all around us. With the heating system drying everything out, static is a problem. I thought I was being cautious, but maybe should have worn a static dissipating wrist guard.

I am interested that the B8H description of the PT-1FW Spark Guard Pro DV Line Protector includes the following: "FireWire devices are designed to be hot-swappable..." Is that really true?

Thank you for your thoughts on this situation. I'm afraid this might be a little expensive to get these cameras repaired! So am looking for a way to test each camera to see if it's firewire connection is blown or not. Is there some way to check this out?

All the best,

John Fike
Ypsilanti, MI -- our town was named for one of your Greek generals in the 19th century.
 
I dont think it protects your computer. Actually it protects your devices FROM your computer (from the power that the port is feeding them while connected to it).
You just need a 4-pin to 4-pin firewire cable to connect two cameras together. I believe you can easily find one in any store with electronics.
About how hot-swappable firewire devices are...well some say they are, some say they are not...I think its better not risking find out...so treat them as they arent!
Except connecting cameras together I cant think of any other way to check if they re blown or not. Perhaps measuring voltages with voltometer could give you some answers, but I have no idea about what numbers u should look for...may be somebody else here knows...
Anyway if u have any findings post them, we re here to help...


Alexandros Ypsilantis...!!! A great Greek...
 
Thanks for the clarification, Lyrov. This is helpful. I am going to order that gadget and use it.

Also through the DVXuser.com I got in touch with Mike Wilkinson and he helped me find a place locally that has a technician who can diagnose and repair my DVXs on site. Haven't got a price yet. But he did take the time to put each of my four cameras on his deck, and he found no responsiveness in any of the four cameras. I fried 'em all!

So now I'll get new firewire cards and cables for the two computers, as you suggested, and the gadget from B&H and I'll be all ready to go when I get my DVXs back from this guy in about 2 weeks. Believe me, I'll be treating firewires with a whole lot greater respect having been through this experience!

By the way, I did locate a 4-pin to 4-pin firewire cable! So that's good, too.

I also found a camera shop locally that sells Canons and has had numerous other customers who have blown their firewires. He says it's a factory job, but costs about $180 USD for each camera, which is quite a bit less than your 400e! So I'm feeling reasonably decent about that. These are ZR-20 and 40, so not as dear as the one you had to repair.

Thanks so much for all your help and advice. It's very useful and is getting me out of a jam and back on track for production.

John FIke
 
Latest Update on the Firewire problem:

The units cannot be repaired locally and must be sent to the factory for repair. Four weeks minimum. So, off to Panasonic we will go!

The forecast minimum cost is likely to be $300 to $400 per camera IF all they have to do is replace the firewire jack itself. But IF there is further damage to the electronics board in the camera, that is likely to start at $1000 per camera.

Is it better to just get a deck and download video off the cassettes and forget direct transfer from camera?

John Fike
 
johnfike said:
But he did take the time to put each of my four cameras on his deck, and he found no responsiveness in any of the four cameras. I fried 'em all!
Click to expand...

WOW. I feel for you as I have never heard of someone frying the ports on four cameras.

Your post though served as a timely reminder for me to be more careful hooking up FW components.

A little OT but First - KNOCK ON WOOD

I was talking to a guy the other day who was telling me that often when he buys electronic gear, something needs to be repaired or just doesnt work so needs replacement. And when I compare that to myself - whose had probably 2 warranty issues in the last ten years. Makes me wonder if some people dont have a lot of charge or something that fries their gear.
 
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