F55: Problems Recording in Slow-Mo with Canon 17-120

Run&Gun

Run&Gun

Veteran
Any of y'all out there that shoot on the F55 or F5 with the Canon 17-120 have problems with the camera not recording when you punch the record button normally on the lens grip when shooting in slow-mo? I've talked to a few other people that I know personally and work with that shoot with this combo on a regular basis and everyone has said they have the same problem. I also have no issues punching from the lens grip when on my C300, either. So I don't think it's an issue with my specific copy of the lens. It will record, but you have to seemingly push the handgrip record button VERY hard. But there are no issues triggering the camera to record from the camera body record button. Just tap it and you're rolling. At least one of the guys that I talked to said he's gotten burned so many times with it, that he's just gotten in the habit of triggering off of the body instead of the lens.

I missed a lot of shots this past weekend, because I thought I was rolling, only to realize after the fact that the camera was still in standby. So, I'm wandering if anyone else on here that has experienced this has talked to Sony or Canon about this and heard anything with regards to a fix, besides to just trigger from the body.

I'm also going to test it with my MicroForce attached and see how it behaves. I've never shot with the camera in slow-mo with the 17-120 being controlled with it, only in "real time".
 
I have an f5 /CN7.. interesting I dont know that I have ever used the lens button to REC in slo mo.. have to check that out .. its only slo mo? I do find sometimes even at regular speed .. the button can be a bit touchy .. you have to press it right in the middle quite firmly (I guess its designed this way on purpose to prevent accidental REC ?).. Ive pressed it and thought I was recording but wasn't .. although I used to have that on ENG zooms sometimes too.. after that happened a few times I try to really make sure the Tally light is on in the VF.. on a tripod usually I find the camera REC button is more convient ..
 
It's weird that it seems to only require a much lighter press(like on a traditional 2/3" ENG lens) when I use it on my C300*, but a much harder, deliberate press with the F55.


*I have the AbelCine/IBE eUMS mount system on mine that allows you to go between PL and EF with full electronic contact functionality (and any of the "dumb" UMS mounts without electronic contact functionality).
 
I have the UMS on my 30-105 but they had to bypass the electronics so it no longer sends data to the camera.
I suppose that's the advantage of the eUMS?
 
bill totolo said:
I have the UMS on my 30-105 but they had to bypass the electronics so it no longer sends data to the camera.
I suppose that's the advantage of the eUMS?
Click to expand...

Yes sir. I think the eUMS II is specifically for the 17-120. The big advantage is maintaining power/data/control through the LDS pins in the PL mount when using it on a PL mount that has this ability(like the F55), so you do not have to use any cables. Makes for a much neater and cleaner(and quicker) set-up. But on an EF mount camera, you still have to use the lens cable. So when I use it on my C300, I have to use the adapter cable from Abel that plugs into the lens cable then fans out to a P-tap/D-tap for power(in my case) and the remote plug for the C300. The only thing passed through the lens contacts in EF is lens data(iris and zoom position). Power and control(record trigger) go through the cable.

It is a pricey modification, but it's been well worth it to me, to be able to use it on my 55 and 300. And we actually used it on a big multi-cam shoot a few weeks ago where they used an Fs7 on the jib and they only had an EF adapter for it. If I had an E mount UMS adapter for it, we could have mounted it straight to the camera, just with no data sent to it. Just for $h!ts and giggles, I mounted it to my 55 one time with the FZ mount UMS adapter. No data passed obviously, but I have the hirose cable that I use with my ENG lenses on the 55 for power and control, so it worked, just without iris and zoom position data in the VF. It'd be great if they would make an FZ mount with the data pins...
 
Run&Gun said:
It's weird that it seems to only require a much lighter press(like on a traditional 2/3" ENG lens) when I use it on my C300*, but a much harder, deliberate press with the F55.


*I have the AbelCine/IBE eUMS mount system on mine that allows you to go between PL and EF with full electronic contact functionality (and any of the "dumb" UMS mounts without electronic contact functionality).
Click to expand...

Only used mine on f5/55... mine is a very early one.. and I had to go to Canon to get a lens firmware upgrade to actually get the REC button working at all..a few months after I bought it.. (bit disappointing to spend $35K on a lens and not have the REC button work !).. I just find I have to give it a good push right in the middle.. I presumed this was on purpose so as not to accidentally cut REC if my thumb happened to touch it during hand held work.. which I had with ENG lenses years ago.. actually Im quite happy it being like that.. but on the other hand I do have to check the REC light is on..! but you are saying specifically in slo mo S&Q.. the button often doesn't set the camera to REC..on your f55..?
 
I have had it not record when I thought I pressed it hard enough when shooting 'real time', as well, but it seems to be much more disproportionate with slow-mo. If I have time, I'm planning on doing some more testing this weekend on both the 55 and 300 and really pay attention to the force required to trigger the cameras to record via the lens in both 'real time' and slo-mo.

On a related side note, when you do not have a card in the 55/5 and press record(body trigger, lens or stand-alone trigger), the tally will very briefly illuminate and then extinguish(basically just flashing ON then back OFF). Messing with the camera the other night, I could hit the lens grip trigger fairly lightly(lighter than when I'm shooting with the camera for real) and get the tally to respond. Maybe it's possible there is something going on behind the scenes that they have done to keep an operator from just accidentally starting or stopping a roll with inadvertent or accidental contact and couple that with years of muscle memory with other lenses that require different(less) amounts of force to activate the trigger and you end up with lots of "oops, I thought I was rolling".
 
Yes TBH I,d rather have it that it needs a good purposeful straight on press.. than being overly responsive and cutting REC during hand held shooting..if bumped. I did have that a few times.. years ago with ⅔ ENG lenses.. so I can only presume its actually a "feature" rather than a fault.. do you have the tally light in the EVF..?
I have more had the situation that I thought I was recording and then suddenly see "Standby" in the VF and realize IM not !! happens at the end of long days ..
I do try to really look out for that red lamp now.. I also have it on the dir monitor and ask them to keep an eye on it too .. or it could be the button is playing up on your lens too I guess..
 
OK. So last week I was on a two-cam shoot with my F55 shooting some interviews and b-roll. I used my 17-120 for the entire shoot, because they wanted to vary-up the tight shot(tighter/looser). We shot 4K/24(23.98)P with no slow-motion or other off-speed material. All "real-time" footage. There was once or twice that I didn't roll when I thought I did on the b-roll. Fortunately I caught it almost immediately and it was no big deal since the b-roll was all just for camera and they were waiting for us to call "roll" anyway.

I had a little time to test the camera and lens later in the week. So with the camera set to record in real time, I tried to purposefully hit the lens record trigger very lightly to see how light of a touch it would respond to, since it has seemed to take a very hard and deliberate press to trigger the camera to record. To my surprise, I was able to trigger record with a very light tap. I was almost purposefully trying to hit it in such a light manner that it wouldn't. I attempted triggering and stopping the camera several times, each time I was successful. Next I switched the camera over to slow-mo. Each time I quickly and lightly hit the grip trigger, the camera recorded. Once it did not stop, but every other time it would start and stop with the light, quick tap.

WTH? I knew I wasn't crazy and several other people that I talked to personally have experienced the "problem". Then it hit me. I had the camera sitting on a set of sticks sitting at about waist/stomach height and I was hitting the trigger with the edge and tip of my thumb, not the pad of it as I would when shooting with the camera on my shoulder. Also, the record button on the 17-120 is much different than the Fuji ENG lenses that I've been shooting on for the last 14-15 years. The Fuji's are much flatter, harder and have a very short amount of travel. The Canon feels more like a rounded point(think big rubber crayon). Also, from the muscle memory of triggering the Fuji lenses all these years, I probably do not hit the trigger "square", because I haven't had to because of the way the Fuji's are designed and respond. I'm probably pushing up slightly and the pad of my thumb is probably absorbing some of the force/travel and my thumb may be moving the same amount I'm used to using, but it doesn't translate to always moving the Canon trigger enough to activate it. This isn't an exact analogy, but think of the Fuji triggers as rim-fire bullets that can be hit almost anywhere and they work and the Canon is a center-fire bullet that need to be hit in a more exact spot(the center) and more exact way to make it work.

So it seems to be a combination of different lens trigger design/mechanics coupled with body mechanics/muscle memory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top