Problem...Greed and Prizemoney

S

speculator

Active member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zQU4...e=channel_page

Need advice on a situation going on with a group of us who won a school sponsored film contest and earned $3900 in prize money (as far as I am aware of...not to sure if tax is deducted from the amount). I have been constantly asking about the prize money since we got the announcement 2 months ago that we won (sponsors said it would take about 6 weeks to transfer the money), and today I got finally got the answer that they received the money in their bank account awhile ago after much prodding.
However, out of this $3900, im apparently only going to see $250 of it (as is my brother and the AD/2nd unit cameraman). The theory they proposed is by dividing it up as $15/hr for each person...through some imaginary timesheet that i've never seen. My brother and I acted as PA's during production while providing services such as props and ideas, but our main job was editing, sound design, music, and graphics.
The director/dp/writer(out of 3) argues that he deserves $1000 and the producer/writer(2nd) and star/writer(3rd) argues they also deserve the same (if not more) as the former. They also dictated the final amount without anyones consent.
What should I do to get these greedy people to see that their under appreciating the talents involved and basically shi*ting on our faces. I've also yet to talk to the other two besides the director about it after finding this out. I've written a note to my brother and the AD that we should deserve 9% at the very least.

*We're also all students at a university

Cliff's notes:
-Just heard that main 3 guys received the prize money of $3900 after 2 months of asking about it
-3 guys being greedy and wanting $1000-1200 a piece
-Only getting $250; my roles were Editing and graphics...also PA, sound, music, and props (brother has the same roles)
-Wrote to other guys involved who are also receiving only $250 that we deserve 9% at the very least
-Need advice (legal if need be...but we have no written agreement about how the money was to be split)
 
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You have reasonable and what I would call fair points. Now take your $250 and forget about it. In future you will know to get something in writing before you shoot.

Sadly if you take legal action, youre the one most likely to seem the one to have sour grapes. And theres a reasonable chance you would lose and then be lumped with legal costs. Then you would have dragged yourself through all this pain for months for what? An extra $100? Seriously consider throwing on a smile and learn from it and move forward. Youll be much better off in the long run.
 
Thanks a lot for your reply. I'm definitely considering accepting it, but the Director budged a bit and raised it to possibly $300 (though this is without consent to the other two main organizers). I was just thinking about the legal aspect to use as a leveraging tool without actually going through with it and possibly scare them of possible consequences. Kinda sad situation when your working with "friends" and greed rears its ugly head out to reveal their true face...
 
The contest organizers wrote the check or deposited to a single person. That person has no obligation to give you anything if you didn't write up a contract. Don't make a big deal about it if it's a bunch of friends, at least you got something. Normally people don't.

Also, who owned or rented the equipment used to shoot this?
 
speculator said:
...our main job was editing, sound design, music, and graphics...
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As the editor it's likely that you have the master in your possession. There's a good chance they will want dubs to show off their wonderful directing/producing abilities. Charge them $250 a piece for duplication. :Drogar-Evil(DBG):
I agree with Noel, chalk it up to a life lesson and move on.
 
It might seem very unfair but how might "points" be distributed among those roles on a typical film?

How many points does the Editor receive? AD? Etc.?

No, obviously those positions are usually compensated during production but so too are producers and directors and writers.

-M
 
When it was decided to enter this into a contest where there was prize money involved, YOU should have made sure to get something in writing. It's nice that you are getting something, but as others have said, they aren't obligated to give you anything at all. Just be glad your student piece won the contest, get a piece for your reel, and take your $300. Go write a contract and have it ready next time ;)
 
Very true in all the points suggested, just surprising to actually face firsthand the corruption of "brother against brother" when money is concerned...so much for the value of friendship.
 
Well how many people TOTAL were involved in the project? How large were their contributions, in experience, time, and money? What would you have done in his position about the prize monies? I don't mean to defend this person, just make you think about it from their point of view.
 
It's sad when friends cheat you, but at this stage of your career it's a lesson well-learned. So as you move on to become a professional, make sure you don't enter into relationships that will result in you getting ripped off.
 
Hm. 4K to split. The director, DP, writers, producers and actors got most of it. Seems pretty a-typical IMO.

I'd go with what the others have said -- be thankful that your friends gave you any cash at all. I mean, did you do the work based on the fact that you would get money from doing so, or did you do the work because you wanted to do the work, (or was it a combination...?). Whoever put up the money should get most (if not all) of the money. Give the money man the money and give the artist the accolades of having won this thing. That way the money man will invest in you guys again in the future.

It all sounds ridiculously petty on your part. 4,000 bucks is friggin lunch money, seriously. You would have been better served working at maintaining an (obviously) winning creative relationship with these people, instead of bickering over a few bucks.

I think the only one being greedy in any of this is you. If it's going to be such a big deal, get something in writing next time up front -- but good luck on that being the beginning of a solid creative friendship. Looks like it's going to be you and your brother and your 500 bucks doing it all by yourselves next time around. :thumbsup:
 
Chamber005 said:
I think the only one being greedy in any of this is you. If it's going to be such a big deal, get something in writing next time up front -- but good luck on that being the beginning of a solid creative friendship.
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I'm sorry, this is just BS. If this had been a professional collaboration then maybe you have a point, then there would be a clear division of responsibility and benefit. But what it sounds like is that this is a group of friends coming together to make a film. The problem here isn't the money, it's about screwing over your friend for a few hundred bucks. If this happens to me that would certainly be the last time I work with somebody like that as it's obvious that they can't be trusted; if they ever make it to the top, sure as hell they're not taking me with them.
 
Before judging on either direction, I really think one point needs to be clarfied: who paid for the production? Cameras aren't free. One of the thieves in this was the DP. The writers came up with the most valuable part of the production. I'm not defending them too strongly, and I don't think they're right to do that; I certainly wouldn't if I were them. What I do think is that it's easy to demonize the others when we get one side of a story like this that may not cover everything, when we haven't heard what the people in question would argue in their favor. So I'm not really saying they were right or wrong, even though they have the legal right to do whatever they want.
 
I don't see it as that big of a deal, I do agree that $4,000 is lunch money, seriously. To divide among a bunch of people, it's not like anyone is making out really awesome on this. Obviously in my situation, with my short film, if I win prize money in film festivals nobody else is getting a dime of it. I funded it, my equipment shot it, and everyone was paid on the shoot. Maybe they weren't paid great, but who cares?! Not me! They made money, I spent money. Now it's time to get it back, if possible, haha.

In the real world, whoever owns the rights and spent the money is going to get the money.

Now in this case, sure, you probably should have gotten a bit extra, but I don't think it's worth arguing over too much. It's an annoying situation but I fully agree you need to have a contract before you go into these types of situations, just in case.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zQU4yugAlU&feature=channel_page

There weren't any monetary investments for the film as it was shot with a $0 budget and utilized only locations throughout campus and friends as actors. The script itself only included scenes and dialogue and ultimately did not contribute information to how the story was to flow and be cut (eventually cut trailer style)

There are a total of 12 of us including 2 producers/actors, 1 director, 1 AD, 2 AD/Editors, 6 actors.

The "top tier trio" are:
-The "producer" (who received information about the college contest and wrote the story. Business major, no film experience.)
-His friend (who helped write the story and portrayed the protagonist. Business major, no film experience),
-The director (who shot the film, provided his own primary camera, digitized the tapes & "proofread" the final edit, and edited the script. Film Major).

The other three above the line members include
-Myself and my brother (who edited the film, provided additional shooting equipment, PA, props, sound, motion graphics, music selection and revised the script. Film Majors)
-the AD (who worked alongside the director everyday, revised the script, and shot 1/3rd of the scenes. Film Major).
(The AD and myself both had backup secondary cameras in case the primary camera failed.)

Most of us are friends who decided to combine our efforts for this contest. Our original goal was to win the$3000 1st prize, but we also received an additional $900 as best in category. The top tier trio decided on how to divide the money among themselves and recent information was unveiled that the 2 producers didnt believe in compensating everyone else in their efforts because the money went directly to their accounts. However, the director informed us that although he believes firmly that he should receive at least $1000, everyone else should at least be compensated for their efforts. Although the prize money division was orally agreed to be fairly split since pre-production and agreed to meetup with everyone involved to talk about it, the 3 eventually privately agreed among themselves that of the $3900 in prize money received, the actors of the film should receive $15 while the 3 other above the line members should receive $250 each.

This means that 3 people get the majority $3060 of the prize money while us other 9 receive only $840 total.

To me personally I just find it degrading that through all the contribution that not only my brother, the AD, I offered but as well as those who acted are only worth 21% of not only the prize, but in total contribution to the video in their eyes.
 
the business majors got the money? LOL It figures....

The filmmakers got almost nothing. What else is new?

This is show business, buddy :-)

The star gets $20 million. The guy with the few lines gets SAG minimum. The movie grosses $200 million....
 
filmman said:
the business majors got the money? LOL It figures....

The filmmakers got almost nothing. What else is new?

This is show business, buddy :-)

The star gets $20 million. The guy with the few lines gets SAG minimum. The movie grosses $200 million....
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Yeah but you can't really complain about that, I mean it is fair I think.

Did you see the opening of Fast and Furious? I mean the last film with no stars made $24 million opening weekend. This one, with Vin Diesel back, made $72 million opening weekend; it made more than the last film in its ENTIRE box office run! And Vin Diesel led The Pacifier to $100 million gross. The Pacifier! When people moan about how these actors are overpaid, I just wonder what kind of weed they are smoking. Most of them are not overpaid AT ALL, they are the reasons these films sell tons of tickets. If anything Vin Diesel at $20M a movie is underpaid; if he weren't in most of these films, there is no chance they'd make even close to as much money let alone $20M less. He is a bankable star, worth every penny.

It's the same with sports stars. "Oh so and so isn't worth $10M a year just to hit a baseball / throw a basketball / whatever." Oh really? Well that's funny because the stadium / arena sells out every game and people pay an average of $50 per ticket, and tens of millions are generated in TV ad revenue, and tens millions more in merchandising, so yeah, I beg to differ! They are absolutely worth that much money. People are just really stupid and don't understand economics. "Well my uncle Joe is a janitor and he works harder than A-Rod and he only makes..." Yes, this is why you fail at making money -- it has NOTHING to do with how hard you work!!! It has everything to do with what you are WORTH! A-Rod is worth a lot of money because he sells tickets and people pay to watch him play baseball. The Yankees sell out every home game.

Or take Jordan when he was playing for the Bulls -- he sold out EVERY away game and home game! In fact when he returned after his first retirement, the market capitalization of companies that had endorsement deals with him increased by $1 billion. The guy was worth every penny of that $30M/year.
 
JonathanLB said:
Yeah but you can't really complain about that, I mean it is fair I think.

Did you see the opening of Fast and Furious? I mean the last film with no stars made $24 million opening weekend. This one, with Vin Diesel back, made $72 million opening weekend; it made more than the last film in its ENTIRE box office run! And Vin Diesel led The Pacifier to $100 million gross. The Pacifier! When people moan about how these actors are overpaid, I just wonder what kind of weed they are smoking. Most of them are not overpaid AT ALL, they are the reasons these films sell tons of tickets. If anything Vin Diesel at $20M a movie is underpaid; if he weren't in most of these films, there is no chance they'd make even close to as much money let alone $20M less. He is a bankable star, worth every penny.

It's the same with sports stars. "Oh so and so isn't worth $10M a year just to hit a baseball / throw a basketball / whatever." Oh really? Well that's funny because the stadium / arena sells out every game and people pay an average of $50 per ticket, and tens of millions are generated in TV ad revenue, and tens millions more in merchandising, so yeah, I beg to differ! They are absolutely worth that much money. People are just really stupid and don't understand economics. "Well my uncle Joe is a janitor and he works harder than A-Rod and he only makes..." Yes, this is why you fail at making money -- it has NOTHING to do with how hard you work!!! It has everything to do with what you are WORTH! A-Rod is worth a lot of money because he sells tickets and people pay to watch him play baseball. The Yankees sell out every home game.

Or take Jordan when he was playing for the Bulls -- he sold out EVERY away game and home game! In fact when he returned after his first retirement, the market capitalization of companies that had endorsement deals with him increased by $1 billion. The guy was worth every penny of that $30M/year.
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Yeah, this gets into a bigger issue that I think most people (the bottom 99% of the nation) have trouble reconciling. They'll rush out to the theatre to see a movie because Brad Pitt is in it, and then turn around and complain that he's making so much money. Or they'll give all of their retirement funds to someone to invest in Citigroup which pays the CEO millions of dollars, but then ***** when the CEO gets paid mass moolah.

If you don't think Brad Pitt should make millions of dollars, don't see his movies. If you don't think Brian Urlacher should make millions of dollars, don't buy his jersey. If you don't think the CEO of Citi should be getting 100 million dollar bonuses -- don't invest in Citi.

Most of the top 1% are there because we support them being there.

Again, though, to this topic -- it really does sound like the right people got the correct percentage. The director, honestly, should have gotten even more because it was his equipment that was used in the shoot! And, I mean, let's face it, 90% of the time the guy walking away with the most money is going to have the title Producer. If you wanted to make more money off of this you should have been a producer. They paid you 15 bucks an hour for what was, I'm assuming, a pretty good time with your friends. You and your brother should be waving your cash saying, "Hey! We have 500 bucks to invest in the next project!" THIS will get you on the bill as a producer, see?

You and your brother should know that friends and creative collaborators are oft times irreplacable. You can't do the business of making films alone. You need people aroung you. Some are going to be concerned about the money, some are going to be concerned about the artistry. You need both. Go back and make amends with these guys and move onto the next project. You guys won! You should be focused on the next project -- putting these winnings into the next project -- not bickering.
 
The whole point isnt particularly monetary compensation, but initially the whole film was 3-4 days (edited just the night before until the 3 o clock deadline the next day) before the deadline and originally consisted of the three of them atm which means only one was capable of actually filming something (but has no idea how to cut a trailer and wanted to implement random Terminator 2 action clips in the cut).

However, to employ so many other people's help and to say in total the 6 actors only "contributed" 2% combined and the other important staff members were only worth 15% for the video's success. The film couldve fallen apart without everyone's help.

This isnt a group of hired talent or strangers with a traditional business structure, its suppose to be a group of friends utilizing each others talents or expertise.
 
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