F5: Pro Res & DnxHD announced for the F's!

The F55 is a business tool, not a commodity. It is not a cell phone. If you have customers that are willing to pay an amount that allows you to make money - buy it. If you don't have customers willing to pay an appropriate amount, then don't buy it.

I spent over $250k on my first F900 HD camera package - one package, and I made tons of money. Paid for in under a year.
 
Indeed this is how it should be. Ive profited from my old MediumFormat stills camera ($20k for something now bettered for $1.5k) - but today it is more risky with the turnover of tech..

S
 
i think pushing to an extreme the terms of this kind of discussion is a way to make it meaningless, even though most of us are familiar enough with the subject to understand that it is significant. but this is where it always ends up, oddly enough, with people doing their best to talk right past each other.
 
JackCarter said:
these cameras will go exactly the same way as the F3 did, on eBay with no one buying them, not even for a quarter of the price that the owners paid for them
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If you can still get use out of it, the worth of a camera (or a car, computer, etc.) is not how much you can sell it for. There are shooters and rental shops still getting money out of their F900's, introduced 15 years ago.
 
Im just HUGELY grateful Sony has chosen to update these cameras with features that were never promised and that their intention seems to be improving the platform rather then releasing new models every year. Believe me, it hurt when my F3 lost 50% value overnight but it's paid itself back about three times by now. Using it as a B camera with attached Samurai has made it invaluable. Never ceases to impress me.
 
The F3 I am using made $6700 over the last two and half months and it still produces more pleasing (to me) images than anything close to that price range.

Ebay has nothing to do with what is happening in the camera marketplace or any camera's value. There are many thousands of F3's and even "old" AF100's out there working everyday and in very big production companies here in LA. An F3 in log mode with an odyssey can out-perform all but a very small amount of cameras that all cost $10,000+ more.
 
rx8pilot said:
The F55 is a business tool, not a commodity. It is not a cell phone. If you have customers that are willing to pay an amount that allows you to make money - buy it. If you don't have customers willing to pay an appropriate amount, then don't buy it.

I spent over $250k on my first F900 HD camera package - one package, and I made tons of money. Paid for in under a year.
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ZZZZZZZ........YAWN.....ZZZZZZZZZ..... Keep it coming!

I'm not getting in to an argument with 'business men' because I don't share the same ethics as you! Cameras for me are for creating images, not money! I create art, or try my best to, because I want to express myself in some way! Not because I want to make money. It's because of people like you, that Hollywood is now dead. They make simple films for simple people, as they are simple enough to watch the rubbish on offer, but still...... It makes money.

I'm really sorry for having an opinion, and if I've upset you by bad mouthing your cash cow, then tough!
 
rx8pilot said:
The F55 is a business tool, not a commodity.
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JackCarter said:
ZZZZZZZ........YAWN.....ZZZZZZZZZ..... Keep it coming!
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You can have an opinion, just keep it civil, please?

I'm not sure why the suggestion or even statement that these are business tools that need justification is so inflammatory?

The art and the business are inextricably intertwined, unless you are independently wealthy. So that means most of us have to be able to justify a $50K camera purchase, either monetarily, or otherwise.

Most of us here are in a competitive business with our F55 purchases. We lose jobs to Epics, Alexas, etc, and we need to see our investment be able to work as much as possible. Even if I don't lose the job as DP, sometimes my camera isn't along for the job because of high speed needs, or codec needs. That bugs me.

Thus the discussion.

You can discuss without insulting, right?
 
Doug Jensen said:
A rip off is when you don't get what you paid for. In the case of the F55, Sony is still adding NEW features that I didn't even expect I would be getting. That does not fit any definition of a ripoff.
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Yes I honestly feel the exact opposite of "ripoff" with the F55, it just keeps on giving like Santa Claus.
 
It's funny that folks rather argue amongst themselves and achieve absolutely nothing at all - instead of coming together as an economic powerhouse to talk to Sony in terms it can understand (profit and loss). If the majority of the pros agree not to buy the newest device unless A,B,C.D happens then Sony will suddenly NEED to take care of all sits clients as much as those clients NEED to be taken care of. I don't know the story of the F3, but if they promised updates at the time of purchase and didn't come through on their promises then they should have pressure to do so. If we only care about the way a company treats OUR group of customers and ignore what happens to other ones- we can expect it to be us someday soon being in the same boat.

Trade organizations rather than just Chat rooms would ensure that our needs and not just Sony's needs are met long term. But if they know that we have a short memory and that they can get away with it- sure- why would any corporation (who's eld all be all of existence is merely profit) do the right thing if there was no reason to.

Lets stop arguing amounts ourselves and actually do something about it for once!

On a side note, the whole "why don't you go out and build a better camera then" is insane- one doesn't have to be able to build a camera to critique Sony's economics. Let me ask you a question- if you purchase a camera that is capable of having a global shutter but to maximize profit sony doesn't turn your that function - and only offers you the choice of buying the next 30,000 dollar camera is that really fair? Is it fair that you need a company like Magic Lantern to let you use the full potential of your 5D Mark III?
 
Wouldn't it be nice though if Sony was held to a higher standard as to guarantee that each camera purchase you make you would actually make that much off each camera! Wouldn't it be nice if by working together you didn't see a new platform come out sooner and sooner each cycle - and get every last drop out of each of your camera investment dollars first?
 
When people use terms like "fair" in regard to different product choices there's no point in continuing the conversation. Either buy someone's product at the price and terms they dictate, or take your business elsewhere. Vote with your wallet. If you want to light the torches and storm Sony's HQ to make your demands heard, I'll be out shooting and making some money with my camera.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the USA the only private product I am compelled to buy at the risk of imprisonment is heath insurance. I am free to make up my own mind on evrything else, and I have taken a pass on many, many, many pieces of equipment because I didn't like the deal. Why is Sony any different. I feel like I'm listening to children crying.
 
Nate Weaver said:
You can discuss without insulting, right?
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Nate, you are a gent, as is Dennis, and a few others that I've talked to on here. But some people on here must work for Sony! They are upset because I call a product a rip-off? And I'm childish! I never really insulted anyone, and in my defence I did say I didn't want to argue, but when people attack me, well more fool them!

I'll repeat, I think the F5/55 is a RIP OFF! It's a plastic box, that has old codecs, a new codec, and can shoot 4K RAW with an expensive add on plastic box! It's basiacally a plastic RED camera that works, only no thought has gone in to the design! It was released way too early as Sony are greedy, and it really should have been released this NAB! Now Sony are bricking it with ARRI AMIRA being released, they want to re-sell you a new body, and a codec that should have been included in the first place! If Sony actually listened, they wouldn't look so stupid!

If this is my opinion, and I've not actually insulted any one, then what have I done wrong?
 
Why can't people answer the good questions? Why are they so eager to accept the status quo? Why do they not want a better investment, camera, treatment? I own the damn thing and I have to admit that it's a bit of a rip off.... it's a shame that Sony is not held to a higher standard by it's customer base because it really could be such a better environment for everyone.

Saying "take it or leave it" is CHILDISH- there is room for improvement, and if we work together we can actually achieve that!

I believe it was Carter who said he doesn't do this for the money but for the art? Well, I am in the same boat, while I have entertained the notion of renting out my gear - or picking up a gig here and there, the main reason I got the camera was to be creative.. BUT EVEN IF your only interest is financial you should be interested in the best product for your investment dollar, and no matter how much money you make - having an upgradable camera rather than needing to buy new every 12-24 months would line your pockets even more than now!

you know what, It's not really an issue of "jack is right" or Jack is wrong - it's an issue of "I agree with Jack's comment" or "I disagree with Jack's comment" -

I disagree with Jack's comment about the product being a plastic box- it seems pretty solid to me!
BUT
I agree with Jack's comment that these companies are releasing product waaaaay to soon. A few upgrades here and there are one thing, but the original spec sheet wasn't even met until 3 firmware upgrades later. They are doing this in order to perpetuate the status quo where you have to buy a whole new camera every couple years and drop support for their previous owners. These aren't some handy cams- these are massive investments for people - There is a difference between a profitable business and a money grab... IF in fact Sony promised upgrades at the point of sale and then didn't come through for the F3's (or any other product) we really should band together so we are not the next victim.

Imagine if sony came out with an "Xyz" before their promised firmware 1,2 and 3 came out- should we stand for that?
 
captainjman said:
Why can't people answer the good questions? Why are they so eager to accept the status quo? Why do they not want a better investment, camera, treatment? I own the damn thing and I have to admit that it's a bit of a rip off.... it's a shame that Sony is not held to a higher standard by it's customer base because it really could be such a better environment for everyone.
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speaking for myself, i've had a dispute with Sony before. they just stonewall. in one of many meetings with a local vendor, a fairly senior Sony rep happened to drop in and when confronted with sub-par functioning on a Sony camera, he just shrugged his shoulders. Sony is a huge, lumbering beast. everyone on this forum could jump up and down on Sony's toe and it wouldn't even register. and we could all take our business elsewhere and if they noticed at all, they'd probably just scratch their heads and move on to the next product cycle. and guess what! it's really hard to get around them in this industry. the only thing you can do is recognize it for what it is, 'cause they don't care. just try not to put yourself in a situation where you're too exposed to their disinterest.
 
Why all the pissing and moaning? If you don't like the camera or the price don't buy it. This forum is a place for people who want to share information and learn. If all you want to do is complain, go to a bar and tell it all to the bartender.
 
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