Price to charge per day FS700 + Odyssey 7Q
- Thread starter dapoopta
- Start date
Allen Achterberg
Active member
I always start by asking what they have budgeted. If they say they don't know, I give them a Rundown of Personal Day Rate, and rental house rates for the gear. after I name those numbers, I watch their face and behavior closely and offer a deal. Base that deal on something you like about them or the project, provide reason ie. But you seem like a really ambitious guy and I'd like to build a relationship. Limit the deal to 25% max loss from MAX charges. Do not sell yourself short. If they tell you a budget help them make it realistic, and balance that with what your needs/abilities are for said project. People who sell themself short but have big talent keep clients thinking they can get better for cheaper, and that will keep driving wages and rates down. Nobody wants that.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
Well, I charge $800/day with bare FS700 right now, so I'd charge more than that.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
For tax purposes you may wish to charge separately for services and for gear (aka "kit rental").
On invoices, always list a full rate and then an applied discount for that job. Otherwise if you make a deal for a certain job you have lowered your price with that client and there is no going back.
On invoices, always list a full rate and then an applied discount for that job. Otherwise if you make a deal for a certain job you have lowered your price with that client and there is no going back.
seanmc
Well-known member
THIS...all of this!
Also, I find gear rates don't vary as much by location as talent rates do. Cost of living, amount of competition, etc really vary OP rates.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
This is really good advice. On several occasions, I have done work for some non profit organizations. I have asked them
for their budget. In most cases, they had a budget around 2-3k. Normally I would charge more than that for the type of 'end to end'
video they often request. However, many times, I decide to help them out, and when I invoice them, I give them my normal
rate, and then subtract everything that didn't fit their budget back out as 'donated production'. No misunderstandings, they
see that they got a great deal, and don't go telling others that I only charge that rate, as they can see it is usually more.
They also tend to say lots of nice stuff about me, and since most of the non profits I have done anything for have a board which
is filled with business owners......it's almost like marketing/advertising.
Colinelves
Well-known member
I've tried the discount thing in the past and it never made any difference - the clients always came back with the same offer and "sorry, that's all we have in the budget". If I'm being nice I'd say everyone works in a price bracket - and some clients work with budgets that mean they can only afford to pay a certain amount for camera. If I'm not being nice I'd point out that nobody is going to pay more for the same service they know they got cheaper last time around, especially in hyper competitive markets like film work.
The only way I've found to raise rates is to get new clients who you quote a higher price too. Be prepared to say "no, that's not enough for me, sorry" (and if they really want you'll they'll budge) or very occasionally justify a higher rate for a client because the new project is more specialised or complex than the previous ones you've handled for them (assuming you can demonstrate you've done that sort of work before for other clients).
The key really is to know your market and know where you are in that market. You find that out by talking to other film makers in your area and negotiating with clients. I've found the best way to start is saying something like "well, let's start at $high but I'll assume you will negotiate me down". More often than not you end up with more than you wanted anyway!
Oleksiy Oliks Kardash
Member
$500, $800?? Guys, are you serious?
I own small rental in Kiev, Ukraine. Average price here for basic kit which consists of FS700 with full handheld rig + Odyssey7Q + 3 lenses + lot of stuff (tripod, slider, mattebox, follow focus, etc.)+cameraman - $130/day (10 hours).
Just FS700 - about $60.
I own small rental in Kiev, Ukraine. Average price here for basic kit which consists of FS700 with full handheld rig + Odyssey7Q + 3 lenses + lot of stuff (tripod, slider, mattebox, follow focus, etc.)+cameraman - $130/day (10 hours).
Just FS700 - about $60.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Good I'm never moving there.
nyvz
Veteran
Is that in US Dollars? How does anyone afford to buy a $10k camera package then? So what does a cameraman make, $50/day?? I guess cost of living there is super low?
Colinelves
Well-known member
Are you serious Oleksiy?! How can you possibly hope to make any money at those rates? The camera will fall apart before it's even begun to pay for itself at $60/day - and that's before you've paid your taxes and business expense.
Clermond
Veteran
Maybe your living is cheaper in Ukraine but on my last visit in Kiev in 2011 I had the impression it is not. I wonder how you will get a return of your investment as you have to pay the same price for camera etc. as everybody else? At least you want to make a profit..
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alaskacameradude
Veteran
Seriously? How in the world do you make a living? $60? Might as well go
work at McDonalds. That is crazy.
Oleksiy Oliks Kardash
Member
I will keep apart the story about state of Ukrainian economics today caused by russian invasion in the East of country, but even before the prices on shooting gear in USD were almost the same. The only difference is the number of working days per month - now it's a little bit less.
I don't know the average periods of investment's returning for businesses in your countries but I returned the FS700's cost with O7Q less then in one year.
Just mathematics: I work as camera assistant with my equipment so I don't need to pay anybody for this job. My FS700 with full kit that I mentioned above works in average 3 days per week. So I get around $1500/month. It's a pretty good period of business repayment here - less then 1 year. Also I have DJI Ronin (the kit with Easyrig, monitor and wireless follow focus - $90) and several MKIIIs, so my business feels well compare to our average local business environment.
By the way such rates are not in Ukraine only. In Moscow, Russia the prices are pretty the same - as I know, the average rent cost there for FS700 kit is around $180-200.
That's why I was way shocked when some of you said about prices $500-800 for FS700.
P.S. responding to question about cost living - yes, it's lower than in Europe. It's about $700-800/month for comfortable living.
I don't know the average periods of investment's returning for businesses in your countries but I returned the FS700's cost with O7Q less then in one year.
Just mathematics: I work as camera assistant with my equipment so I don't need to pay anybody for this job. My FS700 with full kit that I mentioned above works in average 3 days per week. So I get around $1500/month. It's a pretty good period of business repayment here - less then 1 year. Also I have DJI Ronin (the kit with Easyrig, monitor and wireless follow focus - $90) and several MKIIIs, so my business feels well compare to our average local business environment.
By the way such rates are not in Ukraine only. In Moscow, Russia the prices are pretty the same - as I know, the average rent cost there for FS700 kit is around $180-200.
That's why I was way shocked when some of you said about prices $500-800 for FS700.
P.S. responding to question about cost living - yes, it's lower than in Europe. It's about $700-800/month for comfortable living.
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It was cameraman+FS700, and of course it's the labour that makes up for most of it, not the FS700.
Where I am you need about 5 times that for "decent" living, and that isn't yet counting business-related expenses and the equipment.
nyvz
Veteran
Hah, here in NYC you can't even rent anywhere to live for that price unless you share a room with a few people... Most people I know here pay $1000-2000/mo for rent if they have roommates or a significant other or ~$1500-3000 if they live alone, not to mention all the other living and business expenses.
CinematicFanatic
Active member
So Ukraine is no different to what a camera man in Pakistan, Bangladesh or India would make then.
It's all to do with living costs as you rightly pointed out.
It's all to do with living costs as you rightly pointed out.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
$18,000 per year. FS700 was $8k originally plus around $3k for the O7Q setup, so $11k. $750 per month for living expenses times 12 equals $9000, leaving you with $9000 per year for equipment, so $2000 less than the costs I estimated, though I suppose you could have gotten the FS700 after it's initial 8K price, or gotten it used. Huh, so I guess the math does work out then. I was thinking it wouldn't.
Last camera I bought was a C100 Mark II ($5500) which took about a month to get a return on investment for, and the C100 Mark I ($5500) I got before that was about three months, and the original C100 Mark I (without autofocus, also paid $5500 for) before that took about six months. My business and rates have been increasing over time.
To answer the topic's question, I think $600-$850 is a reasonable rate. Probably no lower than $400-$500. If you're bringing extra gear (lights, stabilization, etc.) and have a strong skill-set, you can charge more too. Obviously depends on your market and where you live too.
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