Price on Sony F5 and F55 After the Red Price Drop

I just heard the list price for F5 including the EVF will be about $25,000.
We shall know the price by Friday.
 
avro said:
I just heard the list price for F5 including the EVF will be about $25,000.
We shall know the price by Friday.
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I posted this in another thread about price....

Hi Torben,

Our apologies for our later than usual reply.
The release of the two NewF cameras by SONY coinciding with a long holiday week-end left us with a rather large backlog of emails to respond to since Monday.


Our prices.


SONY has not yet 'officially' released their MSRP pricing in the US and Europe. This is due in first instance to the changed currency exchange in recent weeks.
(And has little to do with a price drop for another well known brand/camera).


We are committed to the prices we advertise at the moment! No matter what SONY releases as pricing in the next week,. Whoever ordered a camera from us will get it at the advertised price.
We are about to close the deposit link in the next days for the simple reason that our promised allocation of units is substantial but nevertheless limited.

In the last few months we have been able to deliver every camera new SONY camera a customer ordered in less than 10 days. In the case of the FS700 and PMW-200 I think we did a remarkable job.
We have been able to ship a lot of cameras with very low serial numbers.


Creative Ventures has a different approach to pre-orders. We do indeed set a M.I.P price. That is the maximum price a customer will be invoiced at the time of shipping and invoicing.
This is because we simply respect our customers very much. The more correct numbers we can get for pre-orders, the best 'negotiated' deal we can get from our supplier/distributor and if we can lower the margins, why not?
We see other companies that ask a deposit for a pre-order and a few weeks later 'dump' their overstock at cost. We find that a bit of 'a slap in the face'.


Hope this answer satisfies your curiosity and gave you a feeling for who we are and trying to be in the future.

Friendly Regards,


Filip


Sales and Licensing Department EU
Creative Ventures BVBA
www.creativeventures.be
sales@creativeventures.be
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ie.: 19.000 euro preordered... perhaps even if you're just on the waiting list. This is of course body only.
 
EIREHotspur said:
My interest just seriously went to the floor.
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Why? That's only about 30% more than the F3 originally retailed for... for internal 2K and 4K, 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 recording, 180fps, 14 stops of DR, and the ability to expand to 4K raw and 240fps if you want to.
 
I have heard nothing either on the record or off the record and I usually am told everything. While I have my speculation, I am very careful about throwing out numbers unless it is to refute absurd guesses. For example, there was talk that the R5 was going to be $19K. Sony very carefully explained to us and I (as well as Jon Fauer and others who were at the briefing or who subsequently wrote about it) could state that the 4K recorder will be priced comparably to similar devices, which would then place it more in range between KiPro Quad and Gemini.

Whatever it might be, the feature set of the F5 definitely places it above the F3 pricing.

Ned
 
Hmmmm.....I'd steer clear of those Creative Ventures guys.

How can ANYONE - ANY BUSINESS do that? (make up a number on their own, and say they're committed to it, regardless of what the actual announced pricing is...)

Either something fishy is going on, or they're not very smart at all. What are they going to do if their guess is below their cost?
 
Steve R said:
Hmmmm.....I'd steer clear of those Creative Ventures guys.

How can ANYONE - ANY BUSINESS do that? (make up a number on their own, and say they're committed to it, regardless of what the actual announced pricing is...)

Either something fishy is going on, or they're not very smart at all. What are they going to do if their guess is below their cost?
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Well they've certainly got a lot of exposure out of it. And I doubt many people have actually taken them up on the offer. So they might think they are being very clever business people. I don't think it's a good thing BTW.
 
Steve R said:
Either something fishy is going on, or they're not very smart at all. What are they going to do if their guess is below their cost?
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They'll have to eat the cost of hedging their bets on the pricing (assuming they stick to their message posted above).

Fluoro said:
Well they've certainly got a lot of exposure out of it. And I doubt many people have actually taken them up on the offer. So they might think they are being very clever business people. I don't think it's a good thing BTW.
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Well seemingly they've already pre-sold their entire initial F55 shipment at the offered price (F5 is still available at the pre-order price).
 
Or the obvious... can't believe how many of you firmly believe that any company's lips is tightly sealed....

Someone spilled the beans under the table. Either on purpose or by accident and CVS was there to hear it or know someone inside Sony.

It's not bad business. If they commit to the price they have given and the MSRP turns out a bit higher, that would be called service.
 
So roughly $32k for the F55, $19k for the F5 and $5.6k for the R5 recorder. Anyone who went in on the F55 deal with Creative Ventures just did very well for themselves!
 
Grug said:
So roughly $32k for the F55, $19k for the F5 and $5.6k for the R5 recorder. Anyone who went in on the F55 deal with Creative Ventures just did very well for themselves!
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K, couple things here:

1-I just went back to the corresponding Japanese press release for the F3 in 2010. These press releases are truly MSRP, not Minimum Sales Price. The F3L was ¥1,522,500 in the Nov 2010 press release. It sells now in Japan for ¥1,249,000 (83% of MSRP)

2-Right now the USD to ¥ exchange rate is not favorable. The current ¥1,249,000 the F3 sells for in Japan right now is $15,617 USD. But the US price is $13,960. Thanks Sony USA for making this better. I also assume this is why there was a price increase on the F3 from the $13,300 I paid in March 2011.

If you take just simply MSRP vs. Minimum Sales Price, that makes the Japanese F5 ¥1,437,975 (street price). That's $17,980 in USD for the F5. Street price for F55 then becomes ¥2,396,625 ($29,967 USD).

If Sony US decides to partially compensate for the bad exchange rate, the price could go lower. If you compensate in the same way it's being compensated now on the F3, the F5 would be $16,002, and the F55 would be $26,670.

I could be completely wrong all this, but I remember doing all this in Nov 2010 trying to figure out if I was going to be able to afford the F3, and it worked out similarly, back then I don't believe I compensated for the break the US gets for the weak dollar (it wasn't as weak then)
 
Sounds about right to me Nate, though only time tell.

I'm really interested to see how these new cameras will affect the market for Alexa - obviously things mostly depend on how close the new Sonys can come to matching Alexa's image mojo (but given how close the F3 with a recorder comes to it, I reckon things will be extremely close with these new cameras). On specs at least, the F5 basically matches the Alexa blow-for-blow at a fraction of the weight and cost (or at least it will do once the SR 4:4:4 and XAVC codecs are enabled); and the F55 jumps ahead of it (again at a fraction of the cost and weight, albeit a smaller fraction cost-wise).

I suppose the big question is how fast the post workflow for the SR codecs will be, compared to ProRes out of the Arri.

Very interesting times.
 
Other accessory prices:

OLED EVF: $6.3k
Regular EVF: $3.7k
7" LCD Screen: $5.1k
Olivine Batteries: $562
Raw Media Card Reader: $742
6 Lens Kit: $28k
3 Lens Kit: $15.6k
 
I would not jump to conclusions on US pricing based on these figures. Not only are we dealing with a different market, the Japanese but some of these figures are completely out of reality. Virtually all the pricing that Grug has ascertained is out of whack even if this pricing is MSRP with exception of the battery. A comparable A/B Dionic used to be in the high $400 but now is in the low $400 range. We've heard the standard EVF is going to be in the high to mid $2,000 range. If the 1st gen 3 lens kit was $6000, I would expect the new set to be a similar range.
 
Just a simple break down based upon these rumored prices for a basic 4k camera... (did not include Red)... the C500 comes with the evf and 1 batt and charger... so just guessing that Sony might throw those in also (added the evf for the Sony's). Extra batts for the C500 are 159 each at B & H... Kept the SSD cards the same and dropped the R5 on the F55 because it will record 4K (not raw) to the card..

C500 added the Aja quad, 2 extra batt's, 2 SSD cards = $31,799
F5 added the R5 recorder, 2 extra batt's, 2 SSD cards = $30,908
F55 added the 2 extra batt's, 2 SSD cards =$38,308

taking Nate's guess the prices drop to $29,888 for the F5 and $36,275 for the F55...

I'm thinking like Andrew. That the prices will be lower... on the Sony primes at 28k at a 2.0 f-stop, would you go for those for a set or go if Canon added 3 more primes... that would be 30k for a set of 6 at a 1.5 stop...

Still like the fact that the F55 has the global shutter... 240fps at 2k (later on.... just hope its not long)
 
Andrew Stone said:
I would not jump to conclusions on US pricing based on these figures. Not only are we dealing with a different market, the Japanese but some of these figures are completely out of reality. Virtually all the pricing that Grug has ascertained is out of whack even if this pricing is MSRP with exception of the battery. A comparable A/B Dionic used to be in the high $400 but now is in the low $400 range. We've heard the standard EVF is going to be in the high to mid $2,000 range. If the 1st gen 3 lens kit was $6000, I would expect the new set to be a similar range.
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It's very rough pricing obviously (going off a direct currency conversion of the listed prices), but I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on why you think the prices are 'out of whack'?

The battery is new tech (supposedly twice as efficient at charging and with twice the life-span of current v-mount batteries) - which would call for a premium; The EVFs are a bargain compared to the Sony's standard EVF pricing (the regular viewfinder is roughly on par with Red's Bomb EVF for price); and the new lenses (with their all-metal construction) are clearly targeted at the CP.2s and Canon's new Cine Primes - so three lenses for $6000 is a pipe dream with those unfortunately; the R5 raw recorder is priced around the Gemini/KiProQuad range, which is what Sony alluded to in the lead up.

As far as I can tell, most of that pricing seems to fall in line with what you'd expect (for 'aggressively priced' Sony at least).
 
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