Price on Sony F5 and F55 After the Red Price Drop

Both Jim and Jarred have spread FUD about the (non) ability to upscale to UltraHD.

They are trying to spread a myth that ONLY 4K footage will be allowed to be shown. This is complete and utter BS and they know it.

Of course the networks will still be able to send SD, 720p, 1080p content to your tv. They just wont be able to brand it an UltraHD broadcast. This already happens with HD, you have to have a minimum of 85% (i think) HD content for the show to be classed and broadcast as HD.

You really think you wont be able to see a rerun of "Friends" on your shiny new 4KTV?

Every time i start being swayed back to RED, this sort of "marketing" just angers me enough to stay away.
 
Jay Birch said:
Both Jim and Jarred have spread FUD about the (non) ability to upscale to UltraHD.

They are trying to spread a myth that ONLY 4K footage will be allowed to be shown. This is complete and utter BS and they know it.

Of course the networks will still be able to send SD, 720p, 1080p content to your tv. They just wont be able to brand it an UltraHD broadcast. This already happens with HD, you have to have a minimum of 85% (i think) HD content for the show to be classed and broadcast as HD.

You really think you wont be able to see a rerun of "Friends" on your shiny new 4KTV?

Every time i start being swayed back to RED, this sort of "marketing" just angers me enough to stay away.
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I'm sure others have already mentioned that not all networks even send 1080p? I've never seen any regular programming take full advantage of what we have now, let alone "future-proofing" ourselves with something we may or may not need. We've only had Bluray for 6 years FFS.
And then there's the thing about compression, how are you going to get those 4k pixels to your TV without being so decimated so as to negate the point of higher res?
H.265 will allow double the bandwidth, but 4k needs even double of that because it's 4x the pixels of HD, what I hope that will allow is high quality 1080p across the board for starters.

I also agree about the RED "attitude", I am often tempted to join the RED crowd, but the elitism is so thick I have second thoughts...
 
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Kolor-Pikker said:
I'm sure others have already mentioned that not all networks even send 1080p?
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I think it's more accurate to say that zero networks send 1080p. The broadcast standards are 1080i and 720p. It's technically possible to broadcast 1080/24p but I don't think there are any networks who are actually doing it (or if they are, I haven't heard of it).
 
Barry is interlaced dead and do you see things moving over to purely progressive?

People might laugh, but I don't think the new F cams shoot interlaced at all.
 
starcentral said:
Barry is interlaced dead
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I certainly hope so!

and do you see things moving over to purely progressive?
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The long anticipated move has been to 1080/60p. We're not going to see that in broadcast any time soon, but it's becoming more common in-camera as a shooting format. And 1080/60p should be the death knell for all interlaced.

However, interlaced is still a dominant broadcast standard; all standard-def cable and over-the-air broadcasts throughout the USA are done in interlaced, and about half the networks and cable channels are broadcasting 1080i in interlaced, so ... it's not dead yet, and will likely remain as a delivery standard for quite a while into the future.
 
1080p requires double the bandwidth - Broadcasters need to make money. I don't see it. 1080p and higher will be great for downloads and streaming though...
 
^ yeah watching news in 24p would just be nuts and for sports we definitely need something like 60 frames per second.
 
Oh man, I can't even imagine when they will do 4K broadcast. It took what seemed like decades to switch from analog to DTV. It actually took a Congressional mandate to finally force it to happen! But then again that was a pretty major change because TV stations had to change frequencies and analog TVs needed a converter box.

This UltraHD content will likely be delivered first by optical media and/or broadband. Maybe satellite too, but terrestrial broadcast will probably be a while.

However, a UK TV provider is doing some tests with 4K to decide if immediate investments in 4K should be made:

You might wonder how 4K broadcasting is even possible when TV providers struggle to support even Full HD. Often, only 720p is utilized and material is often compressed. When asked, the source says that they would simply “compress the hell out of it”.
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I was in a Sony store a few weeks ago, watched the new 84" 4K flat panel. I had that same feeling the first time I saw HD, then realized it wouldn't
be long before it was just another format. Not really impressed. The flat panel was listed at 25K. Sony played the same little tricks Red did, by showing how "small" 1080p is compared to 4K (UltraHD).
The only thing that might make this at all possible is the adoption of something like Red Code for distribution. A few years ago they were projecting 4K content at well under 20mb per second. Red has had 3 years to perfect it. But at the current cost of 4K displays, still not going to get traction.
 
Ha ha...I still watch on a 720P TV. From the distance I sit... even 1080 makes no difference. Add to that, most programs aren't even up to the quality my television is capable of. 4k/ultrahd is a buzzword that is a long ways off from consumers wanting to scrap their HD sets (even though it will be desired by professionals for creation of content)
 
I agree it is all part of a plan to sell to a market already content with their viewing tech, but I do not agree that it won't make a difference in the home between 4k and 1080 or 10k whatever.

I love movies I love content I want to see it in the best quality possible, I don't care how I don't care when, But when it's affordable and here I'm gonna be all over it. My eye's can resolve a whole lot more than a 1080 42" square of my books way across from me right now, and no screen could represent that, that I have seen at this point. So yes I welcome higher content and applaud those who will be foolish or rich enough to grab up these 25k screens thus paying for the development of the cheaper one's I will be buying in a decade or so... hopefully sooner.

Happy clear and vivid viewing!
 
Piolet said:
There might be some hope that Sony will keep the price "affordable." According to FDTimes, F3 sales may have approached six figures worldwide. If true, sales would have approached $1 billion or more. That's a heck of a lot of cameras and money. So if Sony is now comfortable with how big this market can be, they might be willing to set a lower price and go for more volume.


Source: http://www.fdtimes.com/2012/10/30/sony-f55-and-f5/
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The problem is that the pro market isn't about low margin x volume. It is about maintaining margin and allowing the pros to duke it out amongst themselves until they realize that their work and therefore their jobs depend on paying the price for these specialized products/solutions.
 
Crook quoted, "They should DEFINITELY offer a credit for those who spent 3k on s-log. :)"
I'm with you on this, but they won't. Imagine if they offered a similar "reward" to those who drank the Sony Koolaid like Red did with their early customers?

How many F3/SLOG owners would rush to the table to get FIRST DIBS on an F55 with half the price-tag of a retail unit?
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Crook quoted, "They should DEFINITELY offer a credit for those who spent 3k on s-log. :)"
I'm with you on this, but they won't. Imagine if they offered a similar "reward" to those who drank the Sony Koolaid like Red did with their early customers?

How many F3/SLOG owners would rush to the table to get FIRST DIBS on an F55 with half the price-tag of a retail unit?
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Half the price tag is a wee bit of an exageration. From the European price post we might be looking at $19k MSRP on the F5. It wouldn't kill them to give a credit between $1k and $3k for those that bought S-Log at retail. For me it would restore my faith in Sony.
 
I do not want to re-open the S-Log thingy, but, as I think had been pointed out on another thread, just imagine being an Epic owner 2 days outside of your 30-day protection period. Your $34K amortization basis is now reduced to $19K.

The simple fact is that market conditions force price changes. I suspect that's one of the reasons behind Sony waiting to announce F5/55 pricing.

Who knows? After Sony pricing, Jannard might decide he found an even cheaper way of producing Red's and drop the price further. Or Blackmagic could buy Red and Avid, bundling Symphony, Resolve and UltraScope with an Epic for $995. The simple fact is that we just don't know where markets will lead.

Sorry about rant.

And my electricity is back.

Ned
 
nsoltz said:
I do not want to re-open the S-Log thingy, but, as I think had been pointed out on another thread, just imagine being an Epic owner 2 days outside of your 30-day protection period. Your $34K amortization basis is now reduced to $19K.

The simple fact is that market conditions force price changes. I suspect that's one of the reasons behind Sony waiting to announce F5/55 pricing.

Who knows? After Sony pricing, Jannard might decide he found an even cheaper way of producing Red's and drop the price further. Or Blackmagic could buy Red and Avid, bundling Symphony, Resolve and UltraScope with an Epic for $995. The simple fact is that we just don't know where markets will lead.

Sorry about rant.

And my electricity is back.

Ned
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Interesting "rants" are good Ned.....No apologies required.
Happy you have power back now.
 
Yes, Peter. Electricity returned yesterday evening in time for another east coast nor'easter expected Wed-Thursday.

Already getting quotes on whole-house generators!

Ned
 
nsoltz said:
Who knows? After Sony pricing, Jannard might decide he found an even cheaper way of producing Red's and drop the price further. Or Blackmagic could buy Red and Avid, bundling Symphony, Resolve and UltraScope with an Epic for $995. The simple fact is that we just don't know where markets will lead.

Sorry about rant.

Ned
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LOL. Don't know why but that brightened my day. Well, it would really brighten my day to have the resolve/syphony epic bundle, I'll take 20! And after all it's all about who has the largest buyers market anyway like Apple knows...might as well give all those hyped-up DSLR Red thingies away at $600 a pop so that tons of newly "Pro"-knighted college kids buy 'em en mass..
 
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