FS7: Price difference between FS5 and FS7

[EIREHotspur]

FS5 - €6,741.50 inc VAT
FS7 - €7,835.42 inc VAT

Not much difference between them....1.1k for continuos Slow Motion vs burst....that would be the deciding factor for me vs smaller form factor.

I had a Canon C100 ann sold it because of the lack of slo motion and deciding to get either one of these or a C100 2..

 

[alohype]

Plus 10bit and 60fps 4K, I would call those three as a main differences.

 

[Martin.G]

Plus 10bit and 60fps 4K, I would call those three as a main differences.

Dont forget the bad codec in the FS5.

Long GOP 50mbps vs. XAVC-I 200mbps makes all the difference on projects requiring heavy 3D and grading.

I do that from time to time, thus the only reason i would want the FS5 is the small size. Its significant. How much does the FS5 weigh when kitted out? My FS7 weighs like 4.5kg with handle and Sigma 24-105 speedbooster combination.

 

[alohype]

Yes, that's what I was referring to as 10 bit in 4K. XAVC-L in HD is not bad at all. It's efficient yet 10bit, problem is that 4K in it is only 8bit.

 

[andykwilkinson]

The small price differential between FS7 (after being available for a quite a while) versus the FS5 launch price puzzled me a bit - but did not stop me ordering the FS5 on launch day. Once the FS5 starts appearing in numbers I expect the price will fall further.

Sure, the FS7 is much better in many ways except, and this was the big thing for me, i wanted something small and nimble. I find the FS7 just a bit too heavy and awkward - plus it needs additional kit to make it a truly comfortable shoulder cam in my view. I wanted a SMALL camera capable of being put on a gimbal (e.g. Movi M5 or Ronin M). I am getting too old for lugging big cameras around! I also find the menu system in the FS7 frustratingly slow - the ones I've played with at trade shows anyway (I've never shot with the FS7). I have recent top end Mac Pro and rMBPs in my studio so don't expect problems with the XAVC-L, plus I rarely need to grade heavily anyway for the type of work i do. In addition, I expect to keep shooting in 10-bit Full HD for a while, the 4K (or QFHD) at launch on the FS5 is really just a bonus and will allow me to dabble with it now and again. Who knows what the raw and 4K firmware update will bring or when and for how much - so I'm not worrying about that for now.

So, that's why I was prepared to 'forego' the better FS7 features. I can easily afford to buy BOTH cameras - after all I was seriously considering a C300 MkII until recently - but I'll wait for the FS7 MkII which might appear in the next year or so! Bottom line. If I get on with the FS5, then maybe I'll buy a new bigger brother for it next year - once I've sold my much loved C100 and PMW-300!

 

[Ben Scott]

I'm always staggered by people saying the FS7 isn't lightweight.

It's practically the lightest camera I have ever owned!

 

[Bern Caughey]

FS5 - €6,741.50 inc VAT
FS7 - €7,835.42 inc VAT

Not much difference between them....1.1k for continuos Slow Motion vs burst....that would be the deciding factor for me vs smaller form factor.

Compared to the FS7 the FS5 uses much cheaper media, burns fewer batteries, & works on smaller support, all of which make it less expensive to fully kit out, & transport.

The last few years much of my work has been abroad where the FS5 would have been a great tool.

Most these gigs were multicam documentaries for NGOs, often in places with minimal local production support, & even if there was a DIT we'd typically not delete cards until the footage was verified back in LA. Had we used the FS7 the price of cards would have been prohibitive, but totally fine on the FS5.

Carnets are PIA & often a crapshoot. Too often the Customs officers don't fully understand them & their offices are sometimes closed when you enter/exit the country. Then there's the issue of airlines occasionally loosing, mis-directing, or damaging, luggage, so we always carry-on enough gear to get thru a few days of production. An FS5, & a few lenses, could fit in a backpack with room leftover for a backup camera, while a small tripod could go into a carry-on roller case with your clothes, & toiletries. Few Custom officers would blink at a an FS5, as it looks much like a consumer camcorder any tourist might carry, while an FS7 crosses that line & likely draw attention, especially if accompanied by bigger sticks.

For any traveling DP a camera kit that fits in a backpack can be a great asset.

 

[Clermond]

Carnets are PIA & often a crapshoot. Too often the Customs officers don't fully understand them & their offices are sometimes closed when you enter/exit the country. Then there's the issue of airlines occasionally loosing, mis-directing, or damaging, luggage, so we always carry-on enough gear to get thru a few days of production. An FS5, & a few lenses, could fit in a backpack with room leftover for a backup camera, while a small tripod could go into a carry-on roller case with your clothes, & toiletries. Few Custom officers would blink at a an FS5, as it looks much like a consumer camcorder any tourist might carry, while an FS7 crosses that line & likely draw attention, especially if accompanied by bigger sticks.
.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I had to handle a ATA Carnet with customs' officers in Siberia who never had seen one before and spoke no language except Russian. PITA! Nevertheless I would not travel to those countries without one, even not with a FS5. The FS7 has about 2kgs instead of 800gr of the FS5 and you can strip it down to a small set without rigs rods handle. I offload my media to the MBP and two HDDs (one goes into the client's bag) *knock on wood* all went fine so far.

 

[EIREHotspur]

The guy I sold my C100 to had an FS7 in the boot of his car on the way to shoot a wedding.

Because I would not have minded if I had held onto the C100 I decided to ask him why he wanted a C100 if he had an FS7....and he said he loved the picture out of it having had one and sold it.

That to me put a huge question mark over the FS7.

They keep bringing cameras out stripped of essential features that would make them great.
Maybe the FS7 will have the issues mentioned above fixed like they did with the Canon C1002.

 

[ChristopherA]

The guy I sold my C100 to had an FS7 in the boot of his car on the way to shoot a wedding.

Because I would not have minded if I had held onto the C100 I decided to ask him why he wanted a C100 if he had an FS7....and he said he loved the picture out of it having had one and sold it.

That to me put a huge question mark over the FS7.

They keep bringing cameras out stripped of essential features that would make them great.
Maybe the FS7 will have the issues mentioned above fixed like they did with the Canon C1002.

The FS7 is quite a complex piece of equipment. If used improperly, it's possible to get images that look quite bad. However, the FS7 can make images that look much better than the C100. If someone told you otherwise, be wary of their abilities, not of the camera.

 

[Babu]

The guy I sold my C100 to had an FS7 in the boot of his car on the way to shoot a wedding.

Because I would not have minded if I had held onto the C100 I decided to ask him why he wanted a C100 if he had an FS7....and he said he loved the picture out of it having had one and sold it.

That to me put a huge question mark over the FS7.

They keep bringing cameras out stripped of essential features that would make them great.
Maybe the FS7 will have the issues mentioned above fixed like they did with the Canon C1002.

Quite possible the shooter has not had enough time to really understand the camera and it's Custom PP's and The CineEI side. I don't like the HG's nor STD profiles on the camera. Custom Slog2/3 was good to get a hang of the camera but after switching and shooting a while in CineEI the colors are remarkable. Very pleased and that's after having owned a C100 myself when it first was released. No question mark needed on the FS7 in terms of image quality.

 

[alohype]

The FS7 is quite a complex piece of equipment. If used improperly, it's possible to get images that look quite bad. However, the FS7 can make images that look much better than the C100. If someone told you otherwise, be wary of their abilities, not of the camera.

+1
My same thoughts.

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

To me the FS7 is the perfect owner camera and it looks just as good as the other boxcameras. The thing with internal 10-bit 422 and the nice sensor is you'll have a lot of room to grade or even expose lower or higher without image problems. The FS5 looks really good but as a 4k camera the FS7 beats it easily.

I think the C100/C300 looks just as good but they also lacks many functions I often use on my FS7. I will probably shoot on a C100 soon and I have to say it feels limiting when I'm so used to the 4k, HFR and LUTs of the FS7.

I for one thinks XQD is a nice storage media and wouldn't like to go back to SD-cards.

 

[iwhelan]

The guy I sold my C100 to had an FS7 in the boot of his car on the way to shoot a wedding.

Because I would not have minded if I had held onto the C100 I decided to ask him why he wanted a C100 if he had an FS7....and he said he loved the picture out of it having had one and sold it.

That to me put a huge question mark over the FS7.

They keep bringing cameras out stripped of essential features that would make them great.
Maybe the FS7 will have the issues mentioned above fixed like they did with the Canon C1002.

That was me! Still loving the C100... and in great condition too. Don't get me wrong, I do love the FS7. I shot this doc for RTE in March using the FS7 as my main camera and the FS700 as the backup. It's just very cumbersome for weddings!

https://youtu.be/-hfa-jMOVTU

I am very tempted by the FS5 tho, might be selling on ha C100 again if it ticks all the boxes for me.

 

[EIREHotspur]

+1
My same thoughts.

That is not the case at all.....

That was me! Still loving the C100... and in great condition too. Don't get me wrong, I do love the FS7. I shot this doc for RTE in March using the FS7 as my main camera and the FS700 as the backup. It's just very cumbersome for weddings!

https://youtu.be/-hfa-jMOVTU

I am very tempted by the FS5 tho, might be selling on ha C100 again if it ticks all the boxes for me.

Like Ian has stated....he has done extensive work for RTE, The National Broadcaster and is a very busy film-maker.

Well can all have differing opnions on cameras....when I read the specs on the FS7 at first I immediately thought that was my perfect camera.
Then it came out and there wasn't as much raving about it as say the first C300.

The only thing I had against the C100 was frame rate and the Monitor...it is brilliant camera.

You were dead on about the FS5 coming out Ian...nearly down to the day....The limited short Burst of Slo-Mo though and how close it is to the price of the FS7 kills it for me.
I will probably pick up the FS7 for the Sports season early next year.

 

[ChristopherA]

That is not the case at all.....




Like Ian has stated....he has done extensive work for RTE, The National Broadcaster and is a very busy film-maker.

Well can all have differing opnions on cameras....when I read the specs on the FS7 at first I immediately thought that was my perfect camera.
Then it came out and there wasn't as much raving about it as say the first C300.

The only thing I had against the C100 was frame rate and the Monitor...it is brilliant camera.

You were dead on about the FS5 coming out Ian...nearly down to the day....The limited short Burst of Slo-Mo though and how close it is to the price of the FS7 kills it for me.
I will probably pick up the FS7 for the Sports season early next year.

There is only one spec on which the C100 beats the FS7—weight.

Resolution, offspeed and highspeed framerates, ergonomics, file formats and data rates, dynamic range, colorspace, I/O connections; the FS7 is just a better camera than the C100.

 

[iwhelan]

There is only one spec on which the C100 beats the FS7—weight.

Resolution, offspeed and highspeed framerates, ergonomics, file formats and data rates, dynamic range, colorspace, I/O connections; the FS7 is just a better camera than the C100.

I do agree, but for simple run and gun stuff, the C100 rules! When the time suits, it's the FS7.

I think my new second hand C100 might be getting the push in favour of the FS5 tho, just want to find out about the slo-mo footage - seems it's only in 1080i, really would be very surprised by that!

 

[starcentral]

Dont forget the bad codec in the FS5.

Long GOP 50mbps vs. XAVC-I 200mbps makes all the difference on projects requiring heavy 3D and grading

Have you actually tried it?

I've read this is a bit of a myth, as people tend to look at bitrates as an indicator of video quality. On the Sony forums I had read that 50MB/s XAVC-L is equivalent to 150MB/s - 175Mb/s I frame. That's quite

I haven't done any tests, but what I've read is that the advanced codec properties of XAVC Long actually render images with far less compression artifacts and blockies. I'm not saying it doesn't demand more processing for editing/grading, but I think calling it a "bad codec" may be a misnomer.

 

[remsyatassi]

Have you actually tried it?

I've read this is a bit of a myth, as people tend to look at bitrates as an indicator of video quality. On the Sony forums I had read that 50MB/s XAVC-L is equivalent to 150MB/s - 175Mb/s I frame. That's quite

I haven't done any tests, but what I've read is that the advanced codec properties of XAVC Long actually render images with far less compression artifacts and blockies. I'm not saying it doesn't demand more processing for editing/grading, but I think calling it a "bad codec" may be a misnomer.

I've shot both and notice a difference. Cine EI does not hold nearly as well in XAVC-L. Something more baked in will probably hold up pretty well.

 

[k0bayashi]

FS5 - €6,741.50 inc VAT
FS7 - €7,835.42 inc VAT

Not much difference between them....1.1k for continuos Slow Motion vs burst....that would be the deciding factor for me vs smaller form factor.

I had a Canon C100 ann sold it because of the lack of slo motion and deciding to get either one of these or a C100 2..

Here's some pricing for those in the UK:

* FS5 Body only - £4,100 + VAT
* FS7 Body only - £4,790 - 4,900 + VAT depending on where you go

£800 exc VAT is the ball park difference, this of course doesn't include the XDCA-FS7 attachment (about £1300 + VAT) if you want Raw on the FS7.

For me it's not so much the price difference, which is marginal, but the product segmentation occurring in the FS line. I don't think they would be able to charge substantially less - like sell the FS5 for half the price of the FS7 (like 2,500 which is A7rII /AS7 II territory) - that would be financial suicide and the camera won't be taken seriously as a professional video camcorder, not a mirrorless stills camera with video functions. IMHO with Sony, as with most other manufacturers especially established ones, it's all about product segmentation. Canon have a clear one - C100, C300 and C500 with the former 2 now having successors and just a matter of time before we see the C500 Mark II.

* FS7 -> mid tier 4K camera (10bit) - below F5 and competition to BMD URSA, C300/C300 Mark Duo and such - price below, but close to $10K / £5,500 - £6000 Inc VAT UK

* FS5 -> entry level 4K camera (8bit) - below FS7 above FS700 - competing with C100/C100 II and maybe the URSA Mini? Price about the same as C100 2.

The FS5 for me is an out of the box solution - no rigs needed, just slap on a zoom lens, an SD card and a battery and you're good to go. The FS7 on the other hand needs a bit more rigging to bring it up to prod specs.