Pragmatic (but tired?) question

B

Brit Albritton

Member
Hi everyone,

Thanks for this wonderful resource. I know this question has already been answered in various forms, but I hope you don't mind if I put my own spin on it....

I'm a part-time mostly-amateur event videographer with the regular selection of high-end consumer/low-end prosumer gear. I have a TM700 (wonderful camera), HV20 (never liked its low-light quality), several SC-HMX20c's, a GY-DV300 (old underrated prosumer JVC SD cam) and a Canon Rebel XT with the standard EOS lenses. I frequently work with a friend with a DVX100b and an HMC150. I record quite a few concerts, so I've got pretty good audio gear.

I saw the forum post from someone who got lucky ordering a GH1 from Amazon, so I thought I'd take a stab. No luck - it just arrived, and it's a July model.

On a pragmatic level, for someone who is too busy for pixel peeping, is the unhackable GH1 so limited and frustrating that I should send it back? Is it worth waiting months and spending hundreds for a GH2, knowing that the GH2 will itself be obsolete in a year and a half? (Or braving the used market for a hackable model, when the close-out sales for the GH1 make a new model hundreds of dollars cheaper?)

I really just want something I can use to shoot mostly static performers and to provide interesting shots to intercut with my TM700. If the versatility of a 4/3rds system and the possibility DOF and vintage lens effects compensate for bitrate and codec issues, I'm fine with it. :)

Did those of you who worked with the camera for a month or so find that after the thrill of a new toy faded you were so frustrated with the GH1's still & video quality that you went back to the gear you already had?

Sorry again if this is a redundant question... Thanks again.

Brit
 
Brit Albritton said:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for this wonderful resource. I know this question has already been answered in various forms, but I hope you don't mind if I put my own spin on it....

I'm a part-time mostly-amateur event videographer with the regular selection of high-end consumer/low-end prosumer gear. I have a TM700 (wonderful camera), HV20 (never liked its low-light quality), several SC-HMX20c's, a GY-DV300 (old underrated prosumer JVC SD cam) and a Canon Rebel XT with the standard EOS lenses. I frequently work with a friend with a DVX100b and an HMC150. I record quite a few concerts, so I've got pretty good audio gear.

I saw the forum post from someone who got lucky ordering a GH1 from Amazon, so I thought I'd take a stab. No luck - it just arrived, and it's a July model.

On a pragmatic level, for someone who is too busy for pixel peeping, is the unhackable GH1 so limited and frustrating that I should send it back? Is it worth waiting months and spending hundreds for a GH2, knowing that the GH2 will itself be obsolete in a year and a half? (Or braving the used market for a hackable model, when the close-out sales for the GH1 make a new model hundreds of dollars cheaper?)

I really just want something I can use to shoot mostly static performers and to provide interesting shots to intercut with my TM700. If the versatility of a 4/3rds system and the possibility DOF and vintage lens effects compensate for bitrate and codec issues, I'm fine with it. :)

Did those of you who worked with the camera for a month or so find that after the thrill of a new toy faded you were so frustrated with the GH1's still & video quality that you went back to the gear you already had?

Sorry again if this is a redundant question... Thanks again.

Brit
Click to expand...

You can do some good work with the unhacked version. I am sure you will be able to use it for the purpose you've laid out, especially if it's not the mission-critical camera for all shots. There is a lot of great work out there with unhacked GH1.
 
I kinda think it would depend on the concert. For a major show, I would be a little uneasy using a GH1 (or any other DSLR) as an event coverage camera. For me, event coverage is more of a video thing, where long takes are the norm. Keep in mind, of course, that I'm a conservative old phart, who isn't in to taking chances.
We've got 2 GH13's that we are using on a little experimental film project, we are very VERY glad we have them. For us, however, a "long take" is two minutes. We are totally non-technical, and the hack for us was a breeze. There is a vast amount of excellent information available here from some really bright people, the 'pixel peeping' is a non-issue.
Sounds like you've got quite an array of cams. I don't know exactly the look you are wanting to get, but if I were doing concerts (and I've done a few) I wouldn't be thinking GH1 or 2. 'Course, that's just my preferences.....
 
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Brit Albritton said:
Did those of you who worked with the camera for a month or so find that after the thrill of a new toy faded you were so frustrated with the GH1's still & video quality that you went back to the gear you already had?

Sorry again if this is a redundant question... Thanks again.

Brit
Click to expand...

When the Wife did weddings, I was the second shooter. I would have liked to have had a GH-1 to add a bit of moving pictures to such coverage. One of the people we use to see at our seminars at various conferences, made a rig to carry a small sony video camera along with his still camera and would just record what he was shooting with the still. He added that footage to the couple's end products. We sort of drifted out of the wedding business, but I'd use the GH-1 in that sort of setting.

There are a couple of issues that do come into play, hacked or not... that of the 'automatic focus 'single'' not being really 'single' for the GH-1. But selecting AFS, focus, then selecting MF, seems to 'fix' that problem... yeah it's a bit awkward... but since I don't know if the Canon 7D has the same problem... and definitely for interchangable lenses and 'video' cameras... the next price up is about $4K... so for $1400
or so, you get a good lens, reasonable video for the price, and features that are not available until you get to a much higher price tag...
 
Thanks for the quick responses! I'm interested in the GH1 to intersperse with video from the TM700. One trick I often use is cropping within an HD frame in an SD workflow. So long as the focus is good and the subject static I can leave the TM700 etc. pretty much unattended, and then use another camera to play. Mixing in a few shots from a GH1 strikes me as an interesting possibility, if its unhacked modes are at all usable.

Then again, I'd be curious to hear from anyone who feels the hacked modes are so superior that they are clearly and pragmatically worth the extra money for an older model.

NVentive - I would have eagerly applied the hack if the model I just received could take it, but it has the new firmware....
 
several people selling hacked models, including myself. Mine has less than 5 hrs of use on it.
 
Hi Brit-

This is right up my alley. I specifically bought the GH1 for recording concerts (both pictures and video). Even though at the time I was deciding on a camera (7D or GH1), I had no idea what "mud" was it's definitely noticeable. And if you strive for perfection, you'll want to hack the firmware with "C" settings. Make sure you buy Sandisk Extreme III class 10 cards. I can just see a wave of mud with a pan of heads in the audience- never took the GH1 to a show without the hack but the trees in my back yard told me so. I took a chance with "C" settings and I've been able to record up to 17 minutes of footage (my arm got tired), with 10minute clips being normal at least once per show. Try doing that with the 7D.

The following things finally made me buy a GH1:
-Great kit lens
-built in stereo recording
-Vitaliy aka Tester 13's hack
-this forums awesome community and support
-articulating screen for those over the crowd shots
-legacy lens support
-it's just a sexy camera

I would suggest buying a 50mm 1.4 lens (I went Minolta Rokkor for being high quality and inexpensive). My 50mm and the kit have been my go-to lenses. I'm still a newbie but having a blast doing what I do. Check out my YouTube channel for some real life examples of someone using this great camera.
http://www.youtube.com/user/reeldealio?feature=mhum

Good luck and get yourself a hackable model- you won't regret it.
 
It will work for simple stage performances, as long as there isn't fast panning and, most importantly, a lot of detail. I don't recommend it in the woods. Seeing what it looked like in the woods is what caused me to get a 7D, and I would have sold the GH1 if the hack hadn't come out just then. But my concert and presentation footage always looked fine, except for the occasional odd shapes on patterned clothes. But that's not too bad.
 
Thanks j1clark, reeldeal and Cassius. I tested the GH1 a bit last night in moderate to low light. I'm afraid I did see both banding and what folks call "mud" pretty quickly. It was more extreme on the LCD, but it shows up in the footage as well. Higher ISOs are somewhat noisy for stills. With the kit lens it is a less flexible and light-sensitive, and lower resolution video camera than the TM700; as a still camera I miss the speed of my Canon lenses. I'm taking it to a shoot tomorrow night, after which I may just send it back.

It's a shame, because I love the look of vintage lenses, and I was excited to try them out. But I've a feeling I'll find this model frustrating and would wind up leaving it at home. I'll probably wait a few generations before I try again.

Panasonic shot themselves in the foot by disabling the hack. I hope they realize and relent.
 
Brit, I bought GH1 (i havent hacked it yet because of certain reasons) but i have filmed multiple concerts with it and have had some great results. Because of the low light I have been using the Lumix 20mm 1.4 pancake lens. Shooting at 1080p24 i have seen a little mud but its never really been an issue as long as you keep the ISO low.
 
LittleTreeMedia said:
Brit, I bought GH1 (i havent hacked it yet because of certain reasons) but i have filmed multiple concerts with it and have had some great results. Because of the low light I have been using the Lumix 20mm 1.4 pancake lens. Shooting at 1080p24 i have seen a little mud but its never really been an issue as long as you keep the ISO low.
Click to expand...

f1.7 you mean?

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Well, I did a bit of filming over the weekend. It's a great camera, but it became clear to me that the GH1 really isn't what I need. I'll try again in a few years when the gain is cleaner and the lens selection better. (In the sort of event videography I'm doing, I don't really have enough control to use a prime.)

I'm sending the GH1 back to amazon. I've ordered two SD600s from them instead:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC...XZTC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289889631&sr=8-1

Essentially a TM700 with fewer features. Perfect B cams... and with the WareHouse Deals models, two of them together cost about the same as a single GH1 did, even on sale.

I think the TM700 line may mark a temporary plateau in Panasonic's consumer line, as one of the main complaints is that its files are too hard to play/edit. It may take a few years for computer hardware to catch up, which nicely future-proofs the equipment. But buying anything in this market is a risk. :) On my model the fan noise isn't an issue. Let's hope that the SD600s are similar.

Thanks again for everyone's help and feedback.
 
In case anyone happens to take my above recommendation, I've a quick caution. I ordered two SD600s from Amazon, and the fan on one of them is much louder & less effective than the other. (The camera runs noticeably hotter.) The TM700/SD600 fan noise complaints really do seem to have a basis in quality control.

It's a C cam, so audio isn't crucial & I may wind up keeping it. But I can't imagine it will be as durable with a less than optimal fan...
 
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