PPro CS5 or FCP7?
- Thread starter dezignman
- Start date
terra1
Well-known member
i used FCP for a few months when i moved over to a MAC yet have since moved to CS5 as i'm a keen 10 year adobe user.
CS5 users will say CS5 and FCP users will say FCP, bit like the MAC vs. PC ongoing debate :smile: (i now say MAC btw.)
i was already used to the way adobe thinks in its logic and layout so PPro was quick to pick up and i could locate and view the scale of functions pretty quick, in FCP i kinda felt like it was missing tonnes of functions, or i could'nt figure out how to find/use them.
it could also be judged by each previous history with creative software...
ADOBE... pretty much cover the entire spectrum of creative applications and have done so for years and years, each time improving from the last, and are pretty much industry standard in the creative world.
APPLE FCP... i don't know that much about previous versions being from a PC back in the day, i like the way MAC thinks and i'm sure FCP has some super useful clever functions that CS5 doesn't but that could be the reason FCP has them, to have at least 1 advantage over ADOBE :smile:
can you tell i'm a happy ADOBE user :smile:
again with ADOBE... ppro, after effects, photoshop, illustrator... once you learn one they all become familiar.
so ADOBE is my vote, will be interesting to have a hearty FCP user to fight their side. id be interested to learn more about FCP as i don't know that much about it.
dont know if this will help any :smile:
ps: dont ever buy a ADOBE "ELEMENTS" program, i had to use photoshop elements for a while and i actually thought it was faulty because 80% of the features had vanished! "ELEMENTS" is the super slimed down version you get free when you buy a graphics tablet and such.
CS5 users will say CS5 and FCP users will say FCP, bit like the MAC vs. PC ongoing debate :smile: (i now say MAC btw.)
i was already used to the way adobe thinks in its logic and layout so PPro was quick to pick up and i could locate and view the scale of functions pretty quick, in FCP i kinda felt like it was missing tonnes of functions, or i could'nt figure out how to find/use them.
it could also be judged by each previous history with creative software...
ADOBE... pretty much cover the entire spectrum of creative applications and have done so for years and years, each time improving from the last, and are pretty much industry standard in the creative world.
APPLE FCP... i don't know that much about previous versions being from a PC back in the day, i like the way MAC thinks and i'm sure FCP has some super useful clever functions that CS5 doesn't but that could be the reason FCP has them, to have at least 1 advantage over ADOBE :smile:
can you tell i'm a happy ADOBE user :smile:
again with ADOBE... ppro, after effects, photoshop, illustrator... once you learn one they all become familiar.
so ADOBE is my vote, will be interesting to have a hearty FCP user to fight their side. id be interested to learn more about FCP as i don't know that much about it.
dont know if this will help any :smile:
ps: dont ever buy a ADOBE "ELEMENTS" program, i had to use photoshop elements for a while and i actually thought it was faulty because 80% of the features had vanished! "ELEMENTS" is the super slimed down version you get free when you buy a graphics tablet and such.
I appreciate you taking the time to give me such a thorough answer.
I have also been a long time Adobe user–back to almost the beginning of Photoshop, and have always liked the way their programs followed a similar layout. But lately, I became a little annoyed with them over an issue with Photoshop–a small problem that should have been able to have been fixed in minutes cost me hours because of the ignorance of their technical support. Their advice was to re-initialize my hard drive and re-install ALL of my programs (which would have taken more than a day). Thankfully, I didn't, and the problem was resolved by a tip from another forum–something that Adobe should have known–and I spoke to more than one tech advisor, including a supervisor at Adobe.
I have used a Mac since the beginning of time, so I decided to start with FCE based on ads claiming that it does ALMOST everything as FCP, but that "almost" leaves out a lot–including a 24fps timeline.
I have to upgrade but want to know major differences between FCP and Adobe's counter part before I put down that kind of money (I'm tired of wasting it). Maybe I should put my past experience with Adobe behind me, but that last incident left a bad taste in my mouth, which is why I didn't jump right into Adobe in the first place.
Thanks again for the help!
I have also been a long time Adobe user–back to almost the beginning of Photoshop, and have always liked the way their programs followed a similar layout. But lately, I became a little annoyed with them over an issue with Photoshop–a small problem that should have been able to have been fixed in minutes cost me hours because of the ignorance of their technical support. Their advice was to re-initialize my hard drive and re-install ALL of my programs (which would have taken more than a day). Thankfully, I didn't, and the problem was resolved by a tip from another forum–something that Adobe should have known–and I spoke to more than one tech advisor, including a supervisor at Adobe.
I have used a Mac since the beginning of time, so I decided to start with FCE based on ads claiming that it does ALMOST everything as FCP, but that "almost" leaves out a lot–including a 24fps timeline.
I have to upgrade but want to know major differences between FCP and Adobe's counter part before I put down that kind of money (I'm tired of wasting it). Maybe I should put my past experience with Adobe behind me, but that last incident left a bad taste in my mouth, which is why I didn't jump right into Adobe in the first place.
Thanks again for the help!
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Well... i used nonlinear editor software since Inmix Videocube, i have worked with several editing software from Matrox, Grass Valley, Avid, and of course Final Cut Studio and Adobe Creative Suite, been a long time mac user i don´t know why!, but never feel comfortable using FinalCut so my main tools are the Adobe CS5 suite.
Here is a nice reading for change from FCS to CS5
http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2010/11/8/talking-about-x2ppro-is-fun.html
Cheers
Here is a nice reading for change from FCS to CS5
http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2010/11/8/talking-about-x2ppro-is-fun.html
Cheers
terra1
Well-known member
no probs dezignman yeah i started on photoshop 4, i learnt the hard way too as it was before the invention of a "history palette" to save us. (it only had 1 undo!) taught me the benefit of building up layers :smile:
ive seen people mention some of the programs xenogears mentions but i dare not look as i feel pretty settled with the setup i've got just now, same reason i'm not looking at any GH2 stuff... cause il want 1!
ive seen people mention some of the programs xenogears mentions but i dare not look as i feel pretty settled with the setup i've got just now, same reason i'm not looking at any GH2 stuff... cause il want 1!
dvxhutch
Well-known member
I've used both and CS5 is vastly superior to FCP7. Can FCP import any DSLR or RED footage NATIVELY, upscale it to 32 floating bit on the fly, and play footage of different frame rates together instantly?
Adobe has neglected Premiere for years, and I have used FCP religiously up to CS5, but CS5 eats it for breakfast.
Adobe has neglected Premiere for years, and I have used FCP religiously up to CS5, but CS5 eats it for breakfast.
Ben_B
Veteran
Yes. Works fine for RED and for Canon DSLR footage (though I would always transcode a Long-GOP codec to I-frame before editing on ANY NLE, regardless of "native support.") In fact, RED had a video at a post house where they did a long take with two REDs (split screen) shot a video with one, and, in real time, walked it over to an edit suite, copied footage off the card, and dropped it straight into FCP...no converting, no importing.
Ummm...yes. Just set your sequence setting to whatever the highest framerate of footage is and all other footage should play fine within that timeline. For example if you want to mix 60p and 24p footage (and have each maintain it's normal motion qualities) put them both in a 60p timeline. From my experience it doesn't seem to need any rendering. I've never done a project like this but I've worked with people that have and know it's perfectly doable.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
I too used FCE for a long while. I bought it because I needed editing capability for 'live video' and since I had After Effects, FCE seemed to be the reasonable choice. As it is, from what I can tell most people who do 'After Effects' things use AE over Motion, further Encore burns Bluray, and as far as I know, DVD Studio is still... DVD Studio... is this sort of like Job's 'no flash on iPhone/iPads????... No Bluray on Apple things...
Anyway, since I'm not a heavy FCP user, or Premiere user, I find that using Premiere Pro CS5 is easy enough to use, just find which key sequence does stuff, that I use to do in FCE. (I also have had CS3 and CS4 but never used it much... because I was still using FCE...) But with using mostly 24p and AVCHD, PP CS5 seemed 'better'. But as it is, I'm probably going to go back to transcode to an intermediate codec, then into PP, rather than deal with straight to PP AVCHD... My processor/video card does not support the Mercury Engine/CUDA enhancements, so I need something that 'plays' better than what I see now with 'native' AVCHD...
dvxhutch
Well-known member
Ahhh, Ben, why have you quoted the beginning and end of my sentence, without quoting the most important part - PPCS5 upscales footage ON THE FLY to 32 FLOATING BIT.
I am at a loss to understand why you would say
You obviously have never used PP CS5, because there is NO DOWNSIDE to using native support in CS5. Transcoding to Prores422 not only wastes a lot of time, you are suffering from a lossy codec - and it suffers from degradation so much it is unnacceptable for broadcast.
We shoot Red Mx and I can tell you firsthand that FCP7 CANNOT handle the files well enough to be anywhere near competitive with PPCS5. We have tested numerous Canon DSLRs and the GH1/13 on computers with identical specs and FCP7 is a SNAIL in comparison.
And no, you can't just put footage of different framerates together in the highest framerate comp and expect it to work smoothly - it DOESN'T. On the other hand, you can simply drag footage - even if you don't know what framerate it is - and drag it onto a new comp button, and PPCS5 will work out what it is, and start a new comp at that framerate. You can then add more footage of any framerate and it will be incorporated instantly.
Everyone wants to support the tools which they work with and have spent hard earned money on, but please don't say things if you haven't done them firsthand.
There's a reason why the BBC has switched to the Adobe Production Premium Suite, and why David Fincher's company has too - at this point in time it is VASTLY SUPERIOR to anything in the FCS.
Here's a clip on Fincher's thoughts on the production suite which they used on THE SOCIAL NETWORK:
http://www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/customers/
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TheReverend
Well-known member
FCStudio is excellent. I've been using it for 3-4 years now, and it is a capable suite and great for a beginner and seasoned professional alike.
The CS5 Production Suite... Is an incredible value. Photoshop, and After Effects coupled with Premiere is such a solid base for all things. You don't get a good picture editor with FCP, and motion for the FCStudio is good, but inferior in many ways to After Effects.
I'm torn between the two currently. I haven't tried Premiere yet, but as a value, I think the CS5 suite brings more capability to the table for your initial investment. I really believe Final Cut will get a new version early next year, and it will most likely be stunning fixing all the problems people have with it.
If you buy tomorrow, get the CS5 Production Suite.
The CS5 Production Suite... Is an incredible value. Photoshop, and After Effects coupled with Premiere is such a solid base for all things. You don't get a good picture editor with FCP, and motion for the FCStudio is good, but inferior in many ways to After Effects.
I'm torn between the two currently. I haven't tried Premiere yet, but as a value, I think the CS5 suite brings more capability to the table for your initial investment. I really believe Final Cut will get a new version early next year, and it will most likely be stunning fixing all the problems people have with it.
If you buy tomorrow, get the CS5 Production Suite.
my worthless 0.2 cents:
i started learning on FCP Studio 2 on a mac mini, then a an imac 3Ghz....but at the time all i was doing was SD. it was fast enough, then i got my HMC40, my god...it would take a really long time to finish work...so, there i was...stuck in a OS, with a crappy computer, with no money.
finally saved enough, purchased adobe CS4 and a moderately fast computer and been happy ever since...all the money i've spent on my setup would probably not even cover the taxes if i had gone Mac Pro.
sorry, guys..i use macs at work and i think they are a great piece of machinery, but leave them for people with money...
i'd rather buy a ford fiesta and have money left over for gas than a mclaren F1 and ask people to fill up for me
i started learning on FCP Studio 2 on a mac mini, then a an imac 3Ghz....but at the time all i was doing was SD. it was fast enough, then i got my HMC40, my god...it would take a really long time to finish work...so, there i was...stuck in a OS, with a crappy computer, with no money.
finally saved enough, purchased adobe CS4 and a moderately fast computer and been happy ever since...all the money i've spent on my setup would probably not even cover the taxes if i had gone Mac Pro.
sorry, guys..i use macs at work and i think they are a great piece of machinery, but leave them for people with money...
i'd rather buy a ford fiesta and have money left over for gas than a mclaren F1 and ask people to fill up for me
Wilbur Eddings
Well-known member
I also worked on FCP for years but the move to CS5 has actually restored my love for editing!
I cannot tell you how much I love CS5.
It feels like climbing out of a pickup truck and hopping behind the wheel of an Aston Martin.
I cannot tell you how much I love CS5.
It feels like climbing out of a pickup truck and hopping behind the wheel of an Aston Martin.
TheReverend
Well-known member
my worthless 0.2 cents:
i started learning on FCP Studio 2 on a mac mini, then a an imac 3Ghz....but at the time all i was doing was SD. it was fast enough, then i got my HMC40, my god...it would take a really long time to finish work...so, there i was...stuck in a OS, with a crappy computer, with no money.
finally saved enough, purchased adobe CS4 and a moderately fast computer and been happy ever since...all the money i've spent on my setup would probably not even cover the taxes if i had gone Mac Pro.
sorry, guys..i use macs at work and i think they are a great piece of machinery, but leave them for people with money...
i'd rather buy a ford fiesta and have money left over for gas than a mclaren F1 and ask people to fill up for me
Nice!!! Well posted!
I have to admit, I've never bought a Mac personally, only for work situations. That being said, the iMacs these days are pretty robust, come with exquisite screens and on the refurb store are comparatively priced to a PC (again counting the 27" 2500x1600 pixel monitor). Mbook Pros are slightly overpriced, but I would never buy a non-MacBook laptop. Period. The MagSafe connector system is reason enough to own one, not to mention being able to actually get service locally for your hardware. This is so important with laptops as each laptop has it's own custom parts. In the standard desktop world, all you need is a credit card, Newegg, and a little DIY knowledge from the Internet and your PC is fixed. Not so with laptops. Any other brand laptop, and you are shipping it and God only knows what you'll get back in the mail. Data loss? Virus? $1000 repair charge?
Mac Pros are rediculously overpriced. There is no question of this. I love the build-it-yourself instructions that have been rolling round the web. THAT I would totally do if I was getting a new computer.
All said, the FCS workflow is valuable. I'm currently a week and a half into using After Effects, and love it! Done two series promos already and they turned out pretty good. Don't know if I'll try Premiere out soon, because I love me my Final Cut.
http://vimeo.com/17033033
TheReverend
Well-known member
I haven't, and I know you can do that. I'm so used to using Final Cut, and particularly with the audio portion of things. Putting a ProRes422HQ file in the timeline and getting music to match with small timing tweaks in FCP is a breeze for me. I've seen the beauty of Premiere's mixer with read/write functionality, so I'll try it soon when I have more time and less deadlines
I´m a all time Creative Suite and sometimes use the FinalCut Studio Pro, yesterday i make a test of convert a media file from my GH1, convert the media as Quicktime Prores at 29.97fps 1920x1080p, first using PremiereCs5 export Media Encoder, second with FinalCut Log and transfer then with Compressor and lastly 5DtoRGB as third option, and the best results came from Compressor, give me the most sharp image as the original; both, Premiere and 5DtoRGB give me a softer image and less detailed, of course is not a dramatic diference.
But for me the best suite right now is the Adobe Creative Suite Cs5, we must wait till next year for a new FinalCut suite.
Sorry for my bad english.
But for me the best suite right now is the Adobe Creative Suite Cs5, we must wait till next year for a new FinalCut suite.
Sorry for my bad english.
Lucas Adamson
Well-known member
Just bought and installed CS5 Production Premium on my Macbook Pro (migrated from FCS). I'm mainly shooting GH1(3) with lpowell's j settings, an I have a few questions...
1. I have heard that despite CS5 Premiere Pro handling AVCHD natively, unlike FCP7, it is buggy and if time is available, transcoding to AVC-intra is a really good idea. This came from an editor who said that he has problems taking a single AVCHD clip, cutting the middle from it, removing the blank space between the two clips, and then getting smooth playback across the two, due to a bug of sorts. I've tried it and it plays absolutely fine for me, so perhaps he had other issues, but he sounded like an experienced editor.
2. Is there no advantage in trans-coding from AVCHD in CS5 whatsoever? I am using lpowell's J reliability settings, in which there is no "native 24/25" checking, so on import, I get the red line above footage and it needs immediate rendering. Would transcoding change that? In other words, can I transcode to make it native, or am I missing something?
3. What's the best way to pull-down from 30p to 25p (for MPEG 720p30 footage) I am in PAL-land.
Many thanks and Merry Crimbo!
1. I have heard that despite CS5 Premiere Pro handling AVCHD natively, unlike FCP7, it is buggy and if time is available, transcoding to AVC-intra is a really good idea. This came from an editor who said that he has problems taking a single AVCHD clip, cutting the middle from it, removing the blank space between the two clips, and then getting smooth playback across the two, due to a bug of sorts. I've tried it and it plays absolutely fine for me, so perhaps he had other issues, but he sounded like an experienced editor.
2. Is there no advantage in trans-coding from AVCHD in CS5 whatsoever? I am using lpowell's J reliability settings, in which there is no "native 24/25" checking, so on import, I get the red line above footage and it needs immediate rendering. Would transcoding change that? In other words, can I transcode to make it native, or am I missing something?
3. What's the best way to pull-down from 30p to 25p (for MPEG 720p30 footage) I am in PAL-land.
Many thanks and Merry Crimbo!
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