Post Audio Help

H

HollywoodDreams

Member
Hi Everyone,

I am trying to help my roommate work on some audio in post and we're having a bit of trouble. I was hoping someone here could help, because audio is really not our thing. The clips are on her blog at http://angenouxfilms.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/commercials-and-cartoons/(I don't want to link the video on the client's youtube page). We recorded it with the Rode NTG3 mounted and plugged directly into the XLR's on DVX100B. We are using Premiere CS5.5 to edit but just aren't sure how we can make it sound better. It's not as easy as we thought it would be, so we're hoping someone here would be kind enough to give us some tips. Please! We would really like to make this sound a bit fuller if I can. I mean, it's not terrible, just not as rich as we'd like.

Thanks
 
Are you talking about the poetry slam video that's on the front page of that link?

Unfortunately, you're stuck with what you've got...

HollywoodDreams said:
We recorded it with the Rode NTG3 mounted and plugged directly into the XLR's on DVX100B.
Click to expand...

... and there's your problem.

On-camera is the last and worst place to put a mic. Read through the stickies here in Audio to get a sense of what is required for good audio. Even better, get the Sound for Film and Television DVD that's available from DVXUser. Watch and inwardly digest.

A mic for dialog has an effective working distance under 2'. The common wisdom is to get the mic off the camera and into the action. However, in a situation like yours, you really need to be taking a feed from the house sound system. After all, you have a mic placed right where you need it: on that mic stand. Use the camera-mounted mic (even better, mount it on a stand next to the camera) to capture the room (effectively what you've already done), and mix a little of that with the dry signal from the house feed to give it a "live" sound.

But once audio is recorded as poorly as it is in your link, you're pretty much stuck with it.
 
Yeah, it's the poetry slam. Thanks for your help. I was thinking of getting the feed directly from whatever system they are using. I'll have to check into it next time and see if it's even possible. The venue really isn't a live show venue. It's more like a pool hall with a bar, that occasionally has dancers in it (hence the stripper pole). It's just hard to get a mic that close to the stage because of where the boards are and how the crowd is seated. That's why I was having trouble getting closer to the stage. They're also very particular about running cable, because of the crowd. The logistics are just a little difficult to navigate...I will definitely take your advice about getting the mic on the stand and capturing the room and mixing later, as well as getting that book. Thanks. I (clearly) know very little about audio. I was just hoping there was something I could do in premiere or soundbooth to kick this audio up a notch.
 
Get an auxiliary mix out, or a copy of the main out, either from 1/4" TRS or XLR. It'll be line level, so be sure to set the camera's input to LINE (and if the output is 1/4", you'll want to get a 1/4">XLR cable. You'll record that to one channel, and the NTG-3 to the other channel, then mix them when you edit.

The most important thing you can do is to keep headphones plugged into the camera and to listen while you record. That way, you have no surprises in post.

HollywoodDreams said:
I will definitely take your advice about getting the mic on the stand and capturing the room and mixing later, as well as getting that book. Thanks. I (clearly) know very little about audio. I was just hoping there was something I could do in premiere or soundbooth to kick this audio up a notch.
Click to expand...

It's a DVD. Get it HERE.

As for anything that can be done in post for what you have... the thing is that, because of the distance between the mic and the stage, you've recorded all sorts of stuff from the room between the NTG-3 and the stage. You cannot get rid of it.
 
Ok, I see. Got it. I really wish they could get a real sound guy. We can't hear a thing in the headphones during the show, because it's just so loud in there. All we can really do is monitor the levels on the camera. Make sure it's not peaking. They guys we recorded it for aren't beat up about the audio. To them, it sounds fine, because that's how the sound was in the room. I just know we should be able to get better sound, so it's really bugging me.

Thanks again for your help. I will definitly check into that DVD. Not book, DVD :D
 
HollywoodDreams said:
We can't hear a thing in the headphones during the show, because it's just so loud in there. All we can really do is monitor the levels on the camera.
Click to expand...

Try a pair of isolation headphones. They're good for blocking out a huge amount of the sound of the room. I learned the hard way -- put them on well before the event you want to record starts, so your ears can adjust.

I use an older model of the Direct Sound EX25 Extreme Isolation Headphones. They're $89.95 at Sam Ash or Amazon. Have used them for years. They work great for me.
 
Last edited:
For the "cable's running and organisers who are afraid that people will fall", just tell to the organisers "aah, just sit down and have a drink or sleep" :-p
But back to reality: if you put cables at side, or tape them on the floor...Nobody will fall. So that's what you can explain to them, that you're going to put the cables on the side
and not in the middle of the way. And tape them (ducktape).

And you didn't expect it to be that hard ? That's normal...that's the magic of sound. Sound is... Well most people think: "naaaaah, that's damn easy, it's just plugging in a cable".
You're not the only one.

The best thing to do here was just directing the mic to one of the speakers.
 
dre83 said:
And tape them (ducktape).
Click to expand...

Taping cable runs across the floor is a must. However, I do not allow duct tape anywhere near my audio cables under threat of bodily harm. Gaffer's tape is better, as it removes easily and won't leave goop on the cables.
 
Alex H. said:
Taping cable runs across the floor is a must. However, I do not allow duct tape anywhere near my audio cables under threat of bodily harm. Gaffer's tape is better, as it removes easily and won't leave goop on the cables.
Click to expand...

yes sorry...gaffer... not duck... I ment gaffer.

I was confused with some animals....
 
I explained to them that we could tape the cables to the floor to ensure that no one would fall and they just were not having it. They said I could tape them to the walls, but not the floor. So, imagine standing in he middle of a gymnasium and being told "No cords on the floor. Wall only" when the wall may as well be a million miles away.

Also, they wanted the camera connected to the projectors, so there would be a live feed in the room during the show, but again, no cords on the floor. So, we had to set up towards the back of the room because that's where the connections are. We had to run the AV cables under the top of the bar, along the back wall, which is another reason why there's so much distance between the talent and the mic anyway. They just have everything so spread out. Don't even get me started on where they have the sound board. It's upstairs, far away from the audio connections. I just think it'd be better to have it all together. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.

For headphones, I'm using the Sennheiser HD 380's. Is there a better pair for this situation?

Aiming the mic at the speakers or getting the direct feed from the house system would probably work best. So I'll try one of those next time. I really enjoy doing it, but the logistics (or maybe my limited knowledge) just makes it a little difficult.
 
So they want to drive in the mud with a bmw, but they don't want it to be durty...

And you're very limited: long cables = lose of signal = bad signal = noise = everything else that's not good. Explain that to them. And force it to them...Don't be the "nice yes knoding guy".
Be "angry", show that only YOU know it and they only know how to tap beer. Tell them that you either aren't telling them how to do things.

And if that doesn't help just say "fine ok...do it yourself...bye bye"

Or tell them: ok, you want the cables to run all the way... fine..so that's about 200 feet of cables, so then I need a few things so that you have good image...
Don't worry I'll sent you the bill for that....
 
Last edited:
LOL! I wish I could tell them that! I think being "too nice" is a big problem for me. They just say "you don't have long enough cables?" and I try to explain why that's not a good way to solve the problem, but they just don't get it. They're just worried about someone tripping and then owning the place. I'm really trying to work with it, but I don't know. I'll try these few changes next time and see if it comes out better.

Thanks again for your help everyone!
 
Drop them....really... just think "**** off"... Go further with other projects, concentrate on other things...

Let them do... they're not worth it...

Or just tell them: "hey, you, do your job... I do my job...if you don't agree with that... well...goodbye then" (and do it with some kinda italian accent voice :-p)
 
Cable runs of 200' aren't necessarily bad for sound quality. A balanced signal, line or mic, down a good cable can run hundreds of feet without signal problems. Unbalanced signals, however, need to be kept to a maximum of 10'.
 
Well that's the thing, it's not the people that are behind the show itself, it's the people at the venue. The people behind the show are like "here's where we are, do what you've gotta do" but when we go running cords and such, here comes the manager of the venue with his wagging "no, no, no" finger. Now he's the one I could do without!
 
Yes, I know...but I ment the manager. I'm sure the people from the show are used to do this and that there are such things like "mic tests" etc...

Well tell him: no ?? really ? no ? you're realy sure ??? Ok, collect everything, pack in...and go...
 
and I read that maximal lengt of videocables are aroud 20m... so that's about...65 feet...
Otherwise you'll need "repeaters" that "boost up" the signal (so that there's no noise).
 
We used a 50ft video cable last time and it was just enough. You're right. They've got to give me some leeway here if I stand any chance of getting this done the right way. So, next time, I'll just run the cable and bring my husband to keep the venue manager in check! LOL
 
Manager: " what if somebody falls ?"

you: "what if the earth explodes ? what if aliens attack ? What if a terrorist enters and explodes ? what if you step out of the door and a car hits you ?"

I've seen enough situations where cables are running a straight line over the floor....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top