GH5 Possible Stabilization Issue - Sensor Rattle

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dbmathis

Member
Hi All,

I just bought a new GH5 a few weeks ago and have noticed that when "carefully" walking and recording handheld with the 8-18 panasonic lens with e-stabilization off and Oper Mode stabilization on, that there is extreme warping, jitter and bouncing effect in the resulting videos. I also saw the same with the 12-35 panasonic with dual stabilization 2. I recorded several short walks in the city today and the buildings looked as if they were cloth flags flapping in the wind. I'm recording at 4K 150 60p @ 180d, latest firmwares.

I wasn't happy or expecting these types of results so I turned all stabilization off and shook the camera and I can hear the sensor rattling around in the camera. Should this be happening when the camera stabilization is off and the sensor locked? I turned stabilization back on and shook the camera and I get the same rattling. It's like the sensor is just rattling around in the camera regardless of is the stabilization is on or off.

I took the lens off and physically looked at the sensor with stabilization on and it seems to be trying to stabilize, I can see it moving around trying to do something. When I did the same thing with stabilization off the sensor seems to not be moving, but my eyesight is bad, I definitely hear the sensor rattling around.

I have a Ronin-S on order and I think I will be very upset if I see the same results using it with the camera. It will be the greatest anticlimax, realizing I spent nearly 4 grand to find out my crappy iPhone records better video.

Can someone please tell me if this rattling is happening with your GH5 with stabilization both on or off? Have you seen extreme jitters and warping with stabilization on with a 8mm or similar lens that has no stabilization?

Thanks
 
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With very wide lenses and either IBS or IS the warping at the edges of the frame is normal and a function of lens axis moving in relation to the sensor to create a 'pseudo' 5 axis stabilisation. Take a non stabilised camera and put on an ultra wide lens and then move the camera around and the perspective distortion at the frame edges will create weird movement. The only way to avoid this is to have a 5 axis external stabilisation rig like a steady cam.
 
If you move the camera with a very wide lens (panning or tilting) the edges of the frame will do a strange kind of warping/bending! I only shoot locked off on establishing shots with anything wider than 10mm....but then I'm also nota proponent of the idea of moving a camera, just because you can.

On another note, Barry Green's excellent book on the HVX200 addressed this very issue first....speaking from memory hear but it had a bi-line to the effect of "Hear that rattle"....the rattle was referring to the stabilizer on the HVX200. I also own a GH5, and I don't know whether I would recommend shaking the camera! The sensor is floating, and I can't imagine this is good for an extremely technological feature like IBIS!
 
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fboonzaier said:
If you move the camera with a very wide lens (panning or tilting) the edges of the frame will do a strange kind of warping/bending! I only shoot locked off on establishing shots with anything wider than 10mm....but then I'm also nota proponent of the idea of moving a camera, just because you can.

On another note, Barry Green's excellent book on the HVX200 addressed this very issue first....speaking from memory hear but it had a bi-line to the effect of "Hear that rattle"....the rattle was referring to the stabilizer on the HVX200. I also own a GH5, and I don't know whether I would recommend shaking the camera! The sensor is floating, and I can't imagine this is good for an extremely technological feature like IBIS!
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Thanks. I bought the camera to record my walks, so not moving it is not an option. I’ve seen someone else with the exact same setup (GH5 +8-18 on the beholder gimbal) walk the streets of Japan with none of the breathing/jello effects/buildings looking like cloth flags flapping in the wind. I don’t mind the warping, as long as it’s not jiggling or "breathing”, hell, I don’t even know how to describe it. I’m trying to determine if my camera is defective. As far as shaking the camera is concerned, it’s not something I sought out to do when I paid all this money, but something seems wrong, so... I doubt it’s hurting anything. If it’s just the lack of stabilization then great, I have the ronin s on the way. If it’s as good as the results I see with the beholder then I’m cool, but if not, I can’t imagine why I’d get such a drastically different result other than a defective unit.

So you have or have not heard rattling? I think the answer is that you don’t move your camera enough to have found out.
 
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Shirozina said:
With very wide lenses and either IBS or IS the warping at the edges of the frame is normal and a function of lens axis moving in relation to the sensor to create a 'pseudo' 5 axis stabilisation. Take a non stabilised camera and put on an ultra wide lens and then move the camera around and the perspective distortion at the frame edges will create weird movement. The only way to avoid this is to have a 5 axis external stabilisation rig like a steady cam.
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There’s a guy that posts here named Rambalac that records his walks in Japan. Same camera and lens. His videos do not produce these results. He is using a beholder gimbal. I have a ronin s on the way. It’s not 5 axis but neither is the beholder. When I thought about my handheld results I could not imagine how a 3 axis gimbal would eliminate the issues I’m seeing. He’s not seeing these results I am, same setup but only with a 3 axis gimbal. His videos don’t look like jello jiggling of a flag flapping in the wind. See my point?

I’m going to hook up the ronin s soon and if I see my videos jiggling like jello still, I’m thinking my camera IS is not working as intended. The results should be comparable to Rambalac’s. Thoughts?

Also, do you own a GH5? Have you heard the rattling?
 
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dbmathis said:
There’s a guy that posts here named Rambalac that records his walks in Japan. Same camera and lens. His videos do not produce these results. He is using a beholder gimbal. I have a ronin s on the way. It’s not 5 axis but neither is the beholder. When I thought about my handheld results I could not imagine how a 3 axis gimbal would eliminate the issues I’m seeing. He’s not seeing these results I am, same setup but only with a 3 axis gimbal. His videos don’t look like jello jiggling of a flag flapping in the wind. See my point?

I’m going to hook up the ronin s soon and if I see my videos jiggling like jello still, I’m thinking my camera IS is not working as intended. The results should be comparable to Rambalac’s. Thoughts?

Also, do you own a GH5? Have you heard the rattling?
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You said he's using a gimbal so that would make it a lot smoother for a start.
 
Here's a video from yesterday. Please ignore exposure, etc. I only cared about testing handheld stabilization. I was holding the camera very steady, as if on egg shells, with IBIS on, e-stab OFF, and look at these crap results, like some elephant in a china shop. My iPhone seriously does better, which is 12mm in MFT, considered wide. I certainly hope the gimbal fixes all this.

https://youtu.be/oovtVI-doK0
 
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dbmathis said:
Here's a video from yesterday. Please ignore exposure, etc. I only cared about testing handheld stabilization. I was holding the camera very steady, as if on egg shells, with IBIS on, e-stab OFF, and look at these crap results, like some elephant in a china shop. My iPhone seriously does better, which is 12mm in MFT, considered wide. I certainly hope the gimbal fixes all this.

https://youtu.be/oovtVI-doK0
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You don't have IS lock on do you?
 
Yes....I would say something is off....my initial reaction was also to suggest checking IS Lock as it's really intended for a tripod locked off look, and tens to stick briefly before "catching" up....I would check with the Camera shop you bought your GH5 and ask for a replacement....and no, I don't hear anything rattling inside he GH5 where on the HVX you could not miss it with the camera turned off....the warping I described earlier is just a warping of the edge of the frame....difficult to articulate but it is a bending on the outer edges of the frame and goes away once the FL is sufficiently long....what you are experiencing is completely excessive!
 
I have the 8-18mm and I had a problem like this while ON the Zhyun Crane gimbal. The problem is, I don't remember for sure whether it was my GH5s or GH5, if the latter I don't remember if IBIS was enabled or not, but it in some ways worse than what is shown on OP's video, not so much the footstepping warp but mine was pointed sideways as I walked around a church steeple, and the video seemed to go into a *self induced wobble* for what seemed like no reason, on the gimbal! I assumed the IBIS interacted adversely with the gimbal to cause the equivalent of pilot induced oscillation.

I haven't used the gimbal much since but have been meaning to retry this, not to reproduce but to find out how to stop it from happening. Since the GH5s sensor is fixed in place, I thought about retrying the 8-18mm with that camera, which is a slightly wider fov on the GH5s also. Anyway, I have a wedding on the 20th so I have to have it figured out before then.
 
Tom Roper said:
I have the 8-18mm and I had a problem like this while ON the Zhyun Crane gimbal. The problem is, I don't remember for sure whether it was my GH5s or GH5, if the latter I don't remember if IBIS was enabled or not, but it in some ways worse than what is shown on OP's video, not so much the footstepping warp but mine was pointed sideways as I walked around a church steeple, and the video seemed to go into a *self induced wobble* for what seemed like no reason, on the gimbal! I assumed the IBIS interacted adversely with the gimbal to cause the equivalent of pilot induced oscillation.

I haven't used the gimbal much since but have been meaning to retry this, not to reproduce but to find out how to stop it from happening. Since the GH5s sensor is fixed in place, I thought about retrying the 8-18mm with that camera, which is a slightly wider fov on the GH5s also. Anyway, I have a wedding on the 20th so I have to have it figured out before then.
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I’m curious to know the results of your GH5 with stabilization off while in the crane.

Also, with your GH5, with all stabilization off, if you tilt the camera slowly to pointing directly up and then slowly tilt it forward until the lens of pointing directly down, do you hear or feel the sensor move? I mentioned shaking the camera earlier in this thread, didn’t mean violently ;), if I have stabilization off, and I perform this slow tilting up and then down test, or other tilting movements, the sensor is moving around. I’m pretty sure that the tiniest of sensor movement will cause the video to be a mess, regardless of how steady the gimbal or hand is.
 
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I own the 8-18 and a GH5. I can confirm that the "jiggle" that you see is what I've also experienced and is to be expected when combining a stabilized sensor with a wide-angle rectilinear lens.
So I'm almost positive that the clicking sound you are hearing is not related to the image jiggle that you are seeing.
I have put the 8-18 on a Zhiyun Crane and didn't notice the jiggle. I'll put it on the Crane tomorrow and do tests with the Stabilization on and off.
 
That's strange that a native mount lens would have issues like that. When I had my GH5, I thought the IBIS was excellent. Night and day difference between my a7rii and the GH5. I mostly shot on lenses with no electronics to tell the camera what mm the lens was at. This included a 28-70 2.6-2.8 tokina and a 80-200mm 2.8 Nikon lens. I would just ball park it with the speedbooster and where I though I would keep the lens at most of the time. Very rarely did I ever have much for noticeable jitter like that. I would take it in to wherever you purchased it. Even when using wider angle native lenses I never noticed anything like that.
 
dvbrother said:
I own the 8-18 and a GH5. I can confirm that the "jiggle" that you see is what I've also experienced and is to be expected when combining a stabilized sensor with a wide-angle rectilinear lens.
So I'm almost positive that the clicking sound you are hearing is not related to the image jiggle that you are seeing.
I have put the 8-18 on a Zhiyun Crane and didn't notice the jiggle. I'll put it on the Crane tomorrow and do tests with the Stabilization on and off.
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Thanks, that’s extremely kind of you. If it’s not too much trouble could you also share some footage from that setup with no gimbal and stabilization on? This may help others running into this issue.
 
HunterAK said:
That's strange that a native mount lens would have issues like that. When I had my GH5, I thought the IBIS was excellent. Night and day difference between my a7rii and the GH5. I mostly shot on lenses with no electronics to tell the camera what mm the lens was at. This included a 28-70 2.6-2.8 tokina and a 80-200mm 2.8 Nikon lens. I would just ball park it with the speedbooster and where I though I would keep the lens at most of the time. Very rarely did I ever have much for noticeable jitter like that. I would take it in to wherever you purchased it. Even when using wider angle native lenses I never noticed anything like that.
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I agree that it’s strange, never seen anything like it. I chose Panasonic to avoid this type of thing. I saw this with the 12-35 too^. I’ve spoken to the person that sold it to me and they are willing to exchange it, however at this point I’m not convinced it’s abnormal for this camera/lens combo. If it’s everyone’s experience with this combo then It’s surprising for sure, given Panasonic’s reputation.
 
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I removed the lens from the GH5, with the switch powered OFF, tilted the camera down, then level, then down; Yes, there is a click sound that is made that I believe to be normal.

Linked is a video I made (no gimbal, just camera) with some walking with the GH5 about a year ago. This was with the 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 PanaLeica, in Dual IS mode which includes the lens optical stabilizer on.

The problem I experienced filming while walking around the church steeple was with the 8-18mm PanaLeica, on the gimbal, full wide. I'm just not even sure which camera it was, GH5s or GH5 but more likely the latter. In that video, things looked normal for the most part until it would periodically go nuts while on the gimbal, with a short epileptic (1-sec.) episodes of wobble, but extremely wobbly at the corners, with brief but extreme distortions of the subject.

I will test this again as soon as I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkWE49l6wNo
 
When you shoot video while walking handheld (no gimbal) I think it is advisable for stability to hold the camera in one hand.
 
Tom Roper said:
I removed the lens from the GH5, with the switch powered OFF, tilted the camera down, then level, then down; Yes, there is a click sound that is made that I believe to be normal.

Linked is a video I made (no gimbal, just camera) with some walking with the GH5 about a year ago. This was with the 12-60mm F2.8-4.0 PanaLeica, in Dual IS mode which includes the lens optical stabilizer on.

The problem I experienced filming while walking around the church steeple was with the 8-18mm PanaLeica, on the gimbal, full wide. I'm just not even sure which camera it was, GH5s or GH5 but more likely the latter. In that video, things looked normal for the most part until it would periodically go nuts while on the gimbal, with a short epileptic (1-sec.) episodes of wobble, but extremely wobbly at the corners, with brief but extreme distortions of the subject.

I will test this again as soon as I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkWE49l6wNo
Click to expand...

This is actually very helpful. The linked video shows some of the very same jello like breathing effects in the background. It's starting to look like this weird effect is normal when the camera is no an a gimbal while walking. Thank you very much for this.
 
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