Viddovation
Veteran
Maybe I wasn't crazy to not tell anyone about my plan to buy an F35 until after I'd already made my purchase... likewise, the current low on F3 units may also be temporary, as a glut of users move up to the F5/F55.
F5: Poor Man's F5/F55
- Thread starter GaryinCalifornia
- Start date
Maybe I wasn't crazy to not tell anyone about my plan to buy an F35 until after I'd already made my purchase... likewise, the current low on F3 units may also be temporary, as a glut of users move up to the F5/F55.
LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
I suspect, there will be a little flurry of interest in the F35's then it will die off just as quickly. The industry always migrates to the newest shiny trinket the hype-machine propagates. (phone screen size, cores, Dragon, global shutter, megahertz, 4K, 5K, 6K 8K, T1.3, etc.)
My research finds that there's appx 125 of these things made. So, if a dozen are snapped-up here, there's still plenty more out there. I wonder how many F3's there are? I'm glad I have one--I always go back to it. Wonderful machine across the board.
My research finds that there's appx 125 of these things made. So, if a dozen are snapped-up here, there's still plenty more out there. I wonder how many F3's there are? I'm glad I have one--I always go back to it. Wonderful machine across the board.
Where does your research come from? I would have thought quite a bit more than that, since the number I have heard for the F65 is around 400 units and I would think the F35 sold even more since it had less competition when it came out.
LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
I had three separate, non-related, yet very credible sources tell me. It also gets substantiated by the serial#'s. (which aren't cryptic--rather are "serial")
At the original price, I can't image a load of them going either. $200K for the camera, another $100K for the SRW-1 ($96K, but who's counting).
THere's one more piece of "evidence" that I have coming in that would further collaborate this.
Of course, it's all deduction and theory at this point. However, just like I believe that Jupiter actually exists (I never personally saw it with my own eyes) I'll accept the findings/empirical evidence to be as close to fact as I'll actually get. ;-)
At the original price, I can't image a load of them going either. $200K for the camera, another $100K for the SRW-1 ($96K, but who's counting).
THere's one more piece of "evidence" that I have coming in that would further collaborate this.
Of course, it's all deduction and theory at this point. However, just like I believe that Jupiter actually exists (I never personally saw it with my own eyes) I'll accept the findings/empirical evidence to be as close to fact as I'll actually get. ;-)
Viddovation
Veteran
When I was shopping for my F35 in late December, I don't think many people were looking for them. I used that to my advantage in negotiating a better than listed price. I'd considered starting a thread then discussing the value of the F35, but realized that if others agreed with my conclusion, I might suddenly be bidding against dvxuser members on the units I wanted.
You actually have a good point. The price was in another level than the F65, which has adjusted to the new reality.
It makes sense the F65 would actually sell more units.
Got you now.
But I guess macgregor had already started his thread by then.
But I think the price going up now is temporary. Once the initial DVXuser hype demand is supplied it will fall again and probably to lower. I wouldn't doubt we will see F35 bodies going for around $5k after NAB.
Because one thing people buying used F35s have to realize is that they are probably the last owner of their cameras. It will be a hard sell later on.
This is a funny thing to read considering the F35 is much more high-end than a F55 and specially a F5. I would say a poor man's F5 is still a F3.
starcentral
Veteran
Back to the thread topic, I know I could shoot through an old SD black and white viewfinder scratched up and beaten so long as I have peaking function to help critical focus on such high rezzes like HD and 4k. I don't know what the point of a 3" 1280x960 viewfinder is for $5000, I would rather lower the quality of my VF and spend the difference on a 7" ext. LCD or OLED monitor, but that's just me and suits the type of work I am doing. Everyone has their own preference but Grug I'm with you.
OlegKalyan
Well-known member
Could I ask you gentlemen to post a bit of your footage, (the thought with is better buy breaks me apart)
on paper the new F5,F55 better, having 14 stops of latitude, to 11.5 on F35, Miguel in his test thinks otherwise, rating it much higher.
I am confused, what is reality like?
on paper the new F5,F55 better, having 14 stops of latitude, to 11.5 on F35, Miguel in his test thinks otherwise, rating it much higher.
I am confused, what is reality like?
krost-audiovisual
Well-known member
if anyone thinking of getting the 7inch smallHD Oled as monitor:
i got one (had the same plan) and am using it now on my F3 as main monitor.
it's great, but it's huge...
you have to get a decent mount (solid camera arm) for with israeli arms the monitor is always at an angle to the camera making it really hard to judge level/tilt when operating handheld -
if you calculate both you end up in the region where the cheap viewfinder is with for sure better peaking features....
if go cheap, get a Cineroid or something similar...
i got one (had the same plan) and am using it now on my F3 as main monitor.
it's great, but it's huge...
you have to get a decent mount (solid camera arm) for with israeli arms the monitor is always at an angle to the camera making it really hard to judge level/tilt when operating handheld -
if you calculate both you end up in the region where the cheap viewfinder is with for sure better peaking features....
if go cheap, get a Cineroid or something similar...
I saw that too. It seems macgregor said something like 15 stops? I truly doubt that, no matter what. The SCCE (Zacuto) test did say 11.5 stops. But did they use S-log or just the cine gammas?
Grug
Veteran
The F5(5) is basically 5 years newer than the F35, and the sensors are 7 years newer. In the digital era - that's a looong time. And as a result the new cameras (well the F55 at least, if we're considering global shutter essential for the comparison) should basically trump the F35 in every objective measure - sensititivity, S/N ratio, latitude, resolution, colour depth and tonality (16-bit vs. 12-bit), size, weight, power consumption etc.
Now that in no way diminishes the excellent imagery that the F35 generates, it simply offers you more over an above it.
As to dynamic range, I don't think anyone knows how Miguel's managed to measure 14/15 stops out of the F35 - every other test has rated it at around 11-11.5 stops, and the footage I've seen seems to bare that out.
What's special about the F35, and a large part of the reason it looks so filmic, is that it's dynamic range has been handled quite differently to conventional video cameras - it allocates the majority of it's latitude to the highlights (like film), to the light above middle grey (digital cameras normally store more information in the shadows). This is why it handles highlights far better than other cameras in that roughly 11 stop range (Red One, FS100, FS700 etc.), and why its highlights still look as good as the F3 in SLOG (which has a 2-stop advantage in total dynamic range over the F35) - the F35 does it smarter.
As for which is the better buy? Well that depends entirely on your criteria. Personally I'd opt for the newer cameras, mainly for two simple reasons: firstly, because the newer cameras give you more options; and secondly, because a repair to the F35 (should something go wrong) could literally bankrupt you.
At the end of the day, I'd suggest writing up a spreadsheet, detailing your specific needs and then see which of the cameras ticks the most boxes.
I think in the end of the day is a matter of personal opinion as always. Looking at Dig, I still think the F35 looks more filmic. Dig looks like really well shot F3 footage to me. I'm sure if I saw it in 4K I would think different. But in 1080p, this is how it looks to me.
OlegKalyan
Well-known member
Adamsenoj,
I feel the same way about Dig, looking forward for some footage from both F35, and F5,55 users, how would Dig look like shot on F35? any idea, the bar, the dark room scene.. the bed scene. Dig possibly did not have properly times grading, coloring, that's my explanation,
On paper it should look better. The other film with the girl and the elephant in India, looks great !
Grug
thank you for elaborate thoughts!
I feel the same way about Dig, looking forward for some footage from both F35, and F5,55 users, how would Dig look like shot on F35? any idea, the bar, the dark room scene.. the bed scene. Dig possibly did not have properly times grading, coloring, that's my explanation,
On paper it should look better. The other film with the girl and the elephant in India, looks great !
Grug
thank you for elaborate thoughts!
starcentral
Veteran
I was really thinking of the Alphatron EVF-350 and a small ext. monitor to get the best of both worlds, but, now I realize the F5/F55 will probably not even pass through some of the camera tools/features which sucks big time. It almost means for sure you would want to go for a Sony EVF to guarantee the info and features are displayed.
Damn it all I needed was a 2.5" LCD screen seriously,..
starcentral
Veteran
Some stupid questions.
on BH, it says the F5 comes with a 'battery adapter'. Does that mean it comes with an ac adapter so I can use the camera without a battery plugged in?
if I use a generic vmount battery, can it still plug directly into the back of the camera like the olivine battery can? If I get one with dtap I can power the monitor too.
i would use this with a smallhd oled 7 monitor. Is there a nice place to attach this to the top of the camera without purchasing a top plate? I'm not sure, does it have a hot shoe on top? Also. When is the firmware supposed to be released that actually allows this thing to be used without a Sony vf?
and I just want to double check that I can use a sxs-1 card (1.2gbps) to record some of the hd formats available on the camera. Is there a list of which ones exactly would be available?
thx.
on BH, it says the F5 comes with a 'battery adapter'. Does that mean it comes with an ac adapter so I can use the camera without a battery plugged in?
if I use a generic vmount battery, can it still plug directly into the back of the camera like the olivine battery can? If I get one with dtap I can power the monitor too.
i would use this with a smallhd oled 7 monitor. Is there a nice place to attach this to the top of the camera without purchasing a top plate? I'm not sure, does it have a hot shoe on top? Also. When is the firmware supposed to be released that actually allows this thing to be used without a Sony vf?
and I just want to double check that I can use a sxs-1 card (1.2gbps) to record some of the hd formats available on the camera. Is there a list of which ones exactly would be available?
thx.
Nate Weaver
Veteran
The back of the body proper does not have a v-mount on it, it's flat. There is a 3/4" adapter plate that goes on the back of the body to accept a v-mount batt. There's no AC adapter included.
Yes. Any v-mount will work. You don't need to use dtap though if you don't want. On that battery adapter plate we're talking about above, there's two 4-pin Hirose power connectors for accessories, which was the way it was done before d-taps.
The handle has 1/4-20s you can put an arm on. There's also 4 1/4-20" holes you could use to attach an arm directly to the body, but I wouldn't advise it since it might be too easy to strip one of those out.
Paul Ream has confirmed that SxS-1 cards work for XAVC 1080p @60p. The camera warns you, but it works fine.
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