GH5 Pocket Cinema Camera 4k vs GH5s ISO 3200 w/ Downloads

Thanks for this, and a few questions:
- What is the predominate light source on the bridge? Sodium, Fluorescent, LED?
- Were the White Balances for both cameras custom set?
- Did you do any test with BMPCC4K and ProRes?

I'd also like to see the GH5S graded to the best image possible, instead of just using Panny's default LUT on it and calling it a day. Fortunately, there are many LUTs like Emotive Color and Leeming's excellent LUTs that both put Panny's LUT to utter shame. I always have to do quite a drastic curve on Panny's LUT to recover highlights and raise the mids.

Has anyone done a true ISO test against these two cameras? The GH5S seems a half stop brighter than the BMPCC4K to me.
 
I no longer have the GH5S, but I did previously test it. The P4K has a bit more "absolute" dynamic range. I'd say about one honest stop. Perhaps more importantly, when shooting RAW it has much more "effective" dynamic range. By that I mean actual usable latitude. I'm finding I can confidently push the image 3.5 stops in either direction and colors remain accurate. The GH5 or GH5S begins to fall apart by 2 stops. II have to push the P4K 4.5 stops to get the color to break the same way as my GH5. (I know the GH5S is a little better.)
 
joe12south said:
I no longer have the GH5S, but I did previously test it. The P4K has a bit more "absolute" dynamic range. I'd say about one honest stop. Perhaps more importantly, when shooting RAW it has much more "effective" dynamic range. By that I mean actual usable latitude. I'm finding I can confidently push the image 3.5 stops in either direction and colors remain accurate. The GH5 or GH5S begins to fall apart by 2 stops. II have to push the P4K 4.5 stops to get the color to break the same way as my GH5. (I know the GH5S is a little better.)
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I'm not as concerned about the dynamic range per se, but the accuracy of the camera ISO settings, since we are starting to compare the cameras. How close is the GH5S ISO 2500 to the BMPCC4K? How close are they both to the true ISO?
 
joe12south said:
I no longer have the GH5S, but I did previously test it. The P4K has a bit more "absolute" dynamic range. I'd say about one honest stop. Perhaps more importantly, when shooting RAW it has much more "effective" dynamic range. By that I mean actual usable latitude. I'm finding I can confidently push the image 3.5 stops in either direction and colors remain accurate. The GH5 or GH5S begins to fall apart by 2 stops. II have to push the P4K 4.5 stops to get the color to break the same way as my GH5. (I know the GH5S is a little better.)
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GH5s has been confirmed in EBU Tech 3335 testing to have more DR than even mfr claims for P4K, so no, it's not more absolute DR, sorry.
 
estarkey7 said:
I'm not as concerned about the dynamic range per se, but the accuracy of the camera ISO settings, since we are starting to compare the cameras. How close is the GH5S ISO 2500 to the BMPCC4K? How close are they both to the true ISO?
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They should both be within about 1/2 a stop of actual. The problem in trying to make the comparison using the brightness levels you saw is that ISO sensitivity cannot be considered without the gamma curve, which will locate middle gray differently depending on which one is used, making the image appear brighter or darker for equal ISO's.
 
Tom Roper said:
GH5s has been confirmed in EBU Tech 3335 testing to have more DR than even mfr claims for P4K, so no, it's not more absolute DR, sorry.
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Think about how silly a statement that is. How can you compare 2 different measurements, one of which you don't even know the methodology?

I can say that by *my* methodology, which I consistently apply:
GH5: 11.5 stops (12 with NR)
GH5S: 12.5 stops
P4K: 13 stops (13.5 with NR)

The absolute number is near meaningless, but the relative difference is informative.
 
estarkey7 said:
I'm not as concerned about the dynamic range per se, but the accuracy of the camera ISO settings, since we are starting to compare the cameras. How close is the GH5S ISO 2500 to the BMPCC4K? How close are they both to the true ISO?
Click to expand...
I don't have the GH5S, but the P4K meters about half a stop brighter than the GH5. I don't have a proper light meter handy, but they're both within the margin of error of my iPhone/Luxi reading.
 
joe12south said:
Think about how silly a statement that is. How can you compare 2 different measurements, one of which you don't even know the methodology?

I can say that by *my* methodology, which I consistently apply:
GH5: 11.5 stops (12 with NR)
GH5S: 12.5 stops
P4K: 13 stops (13.5 with NR)

The absolute number is near meaningless, but the relative difference is informative.
Click to expand...


Only the GH5s has a confirmed measurement. The P4k has only an unproven claim. It's not necessary to know the methodology because it's good business to claim a higher number if it could.
 
Tom Roper said:
GH5s has been confirmed in EBU Tech 3335 testing to have more DR than even mfr claims for P4K, so no, it's not more absolute DR, sorry.
Click to expand...

The golden rule of dynamic range is never ever under any circumstances attempt to compare dynamic range values from different sources. It’s all snake oil science at best and every person measures it differently. The only time any tangible value can be taken from a dynamic range test is when the same exact test in the same exact environment is performed on multiple cameras. Even then a number is just a number and means very little in the real world. What matters the most is each person knowing what they can and cannot achieve with their particular camera in a wide range of situations.

The fact we attempt to put a number on it like some kind of engine horsepower is ridiculous and counter productive of the artistry we should be focused on. We really need to stop treating a number like it is reflective of the actual image a camera can produce. I would rather look at images showing the dynamic range differences than see another lame dynamic range number ever again.

It’s like saying one hamburger is a 7 on a flavor scale and another is a 7.5 on a different flavor scale. Even if the same food critic judged both hamburgers I still don’t really care about the number. I care more about tasting each burger and judging for myself.
 
Thomas Smet said:
The golden rule of dynamic range is never ever under any circumstances attempt to compare dynamic range values from different sources. It’s all snake oil science at best and every person measures it differently. The only time any tangible value can be taken from a dynamic range test is when the same exact test in the same exact environment is performed on multiple cameras. Even then a number is just a number and means very little in the real world. What matters the most is each person knowing what they can and cannot achieve with their particular camera in a wide range of situations.

The fact we attempt to put a number on it like some kind of engine horsepower is ridiculous and counter productive of the artistry we should be focused on. We really need to stop treating a number like it is reflective of the actual image a camera can produce. I would rather look at images showing the dynamic range differences than see another lame dynamic range number ever again.

It’s like saying one hamburger is a 7 on a flavor scale and another is a 7.5 on a different flavor scale. Even if the same food critic judged both hamburgers I still don’t really care about the number. I care more about tasting each burger and judging for myself.
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Agreed. The point I was trying, unsuccessfully, to make is that raw dynamic range isn't a very good indicator of how "good" an image a camera produces. The color uniformity within those extremes can vary wildly, and that's more of a predictor of a nice, malleable image than total absolute DR. 10 "good" stops are better than 15 that are all over the map.

I hate to even say this, cause I know I'm gonna get flamed, but where I can comfortably push the GH5 about 1.5 stops before the color begins to break, I can push the P4K 3.5. At 2, the GH5 looks noticeably "off", where I have to shove the P4K 4.5 to look that bad. That's with RAW. With ProRes, I'd chop about a stop or more off of that usable latitude.
 
Thomas Smet said:
The golden rule of dynamic range is never ever under any circumstances attempt to compare dynamic range values from different sources. It’s all snake oil science at best and every person measures it differently. The only time any tangible value can be taken from a dynamic range test is when the same exact test in the same exact environment is performed on multiple cameras. Even then a number is just a number and means very little in the real world. What matters the most is each person knowing what they can and cannot achieve with their particular camera in a wide range of situations.
Click to expand...

BMD puts a number out there without telling how they got it. Panasonic didn’t. It’s a business decision they made for marketing benefit.
 
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