PMW-F3 S.Log 4:4:4 software upgrade won't be free

L

Luiz R

Member
I heard something unpleasant and it came from a Sony Rep. It seems, Sony will charge for the software upgrade to enable the camera to output Dual-Link S.Log 4:4:4. I was thinking the only paid upgrade would be the HDCAM-SR SxS recorder that will be released on April. But no. If you want to capture the Dual-Link 4:4:4 using another recorder you will have to pay anyway for the upgrade.

Very weird… anybody?
 
They said it was a paid for upgrade from the beginning... not strange since they r still running a business and want to make money. and considering the cheapest camera to do dual link 444 right now is alexa, its still a steal...
 
Actually I didn't understand the firmware upgrade was going to be paid. I though the Hardware upgrade to be able to capture the HDCAm SR at 440Mb was the ONLY PAID upgrade. I will easily pay for it, but the bureaucracy is annoying and based on the new XDCAM software they are selling, it won't be a very easy purchase, you will have to contact a sales rep… very very annoying. And I don't think this will cost less than a few $ thousands. We will probably have to pay 5K for the hardware and software… maybe more. S.LOG is outstanding, but this business model I find disturbing. At least give it for "free" - include in the package - if you buy the hardware.
 
I understand the reaction to the upgrade and the fact that Sony has not released a price only goes to tell us that it will cost. I plan on using a NanoFlash with the F3 as I do with the EX3 ... so ... I'm not so concerned with 4.4.4 ... nice to have but not so necessary at the moment.
 
The very first article I read for the F3 said there was a charge for the upgrade. The only issue is 'How much?'
 
A Cinedeck costs around 10 grand US, so I would guess you add together the software upgrade cost with the cost of Sony's recorder and it will, in my view be around the cost of the Cinedeck. Maybe Sony will surprise us and it will be less but that is my prediction.

You will also have to factor in the cost of Sony's memory cards that look about the same size as a PCMCIA card (like a Panny P2 size). They won't be cheap. Probably more expensive that SxS cards.
 
I did hear paid firmware upgrade, but I hope they have learned from some of their recent past. Since the Cinedeck is around that 12K mark, and they did say 2 different SR recorders, you would think they would want to come in under the price of the camera. We can only hope. The third party guys hopefully will keep it competative
 
It is interesting now with the Ki Pro Mini about to be released and selling for around 2 grand. Yes it is a 4:2:2 recorder but we are now in a situation of seriously diminished return in the context of the Ki Pro Mini. Undoubtedly, there will be other recorders coming out or announced in January (CES) and in April (NAB) which will have to factor in AJA's offering when determining their own pricing. This bodes well for the camera op and is why I am going to try to delay purchasing gear until spring or early summer. Just pile money into a bank and wait.
 
Nigel A said:
I did hear paid firmware upgrade, but I hope they have learned from some of their recent past. Since the Cinedeck is around that 12K mark, and they did say 2 different SR recorders, you would think they would want to come in under the price of the camera. We can only hope. The third party guys hopefully will keep it competative
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I heard there will be an Arriraw portable Recorder for Alexa for about 20-30k. Sony shouldn't go beyond the price of Cinedeck, Cinedeck offers way more features than the HDCAM SR portable recorder.
 
There is no way that Sony is not going to charge for the ability to do 4:4:4 10 bit recording. No way. Once you get up to "Broadcast" level cameras, the whole pricing structure changes. Case in point, Sony issued the EX1R with the ability to do standard def recording, they also issue the PMW-500, a camera that costs 3 to 4 times that of an EX1R and charge an extra $1500 for the ability to record SD on it.

Luiz R said:
I heard there will be an Arriraw portable Recorder for Alexa for about 20-30k. Sony shouldn't go beyond the price of Cinedeck, Cinedeck offers way more features than the HDCAM SR portable recorder.
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The Cinedeck offers a lot of good things but it also offers a lot of problems that have been evidenced in the field with issues of units regularly overheating and crashing with a "blue screen of death" style hang. One thing Sony has been good on to date (at least to my knowledge) of releasing gear that generally just works. You cannot say that about the Cinedeck in it's present form as fanatastic as this piece of hardware is.
 
Kevin Marshall said:
Is it definitive whether the 4:4:4 upgrade is hardware or firmware?
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I heard firmware.

To all the people above talking like I was expecting a FREE UPGRADE, I invite you to read my initial post again. What I thought is that by buying the HDCAM SR recorder you would already get the software upgrade (price included). Without the need of paying in separate for the software alone. I wouldn't care having to pay 10K for the damn thing if I didn't have to call a sales rep, make another payment, just to be able to download a firmware update. Just charge for the whole thing in one package and deliver it together.

Now, if people don't want to buy the hardware but just the software than ok, contact the sales rep and get it. But you will need to pay at least 12K for the Cinedeck anyway. So, does it really make sense to charge for the separate software? This is my point.

And about Sony, I believe everybody remembers some EX-1 - when first released - came bugged, I can't remember all the bugs but I remember the Backfocus was quite popular. I am not complaining about Sony quality, not at all, I am complaining about bureaucracy. But I think people should avoid taking this like a football (soccer) game and all this cheering for a company. This is starting to look like an Apple forum. Sony wants to charge more for upgrades? Just do it like Arri then, sell packages. I don't have to keep calling Arri ten times charging my credit card 20 different times just to get ProRes, 444, whatever. I pay once and it comes the way I want. If I want to upgrade later, fine.

Andrew, If these business/sale practices from Sony were so good at all it wouldn't depend solely on the PS3 to get out of the red in the end of the fiscal year. Now, let me tell you what I usually have to read on Sony's website when trying to buy an upgrade (cinemon for instance):

"Note: This product is available to US customers only. US customers may download the 14-day trial version and contact their Sony account manager if they want to purchase licenses for the full version.
If you are outside the United States please contact your Sony account manager for availability."

I am not in the US, and this - BELIEVE ME - IS NOT AVAILABLE IN MY COUNTRY! Isn't this wonderful???? So I can only hope Sony will LET ME BUY A 10K UPGRADE after I have already paid 19K for the camera!
 
Alexa is already ordered. But Sony wouldn't be such a hassle If it let me buy things. If my thread offends you in anyway just don't read it. Following the same logic.
 
Luiz R said:
Alexa is already ordered. But Sony wouldn't be such a hassle If it let me buy things. If my thread offends you in anyway just don't read it. Following the same logic.
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No one said the thread was offensive in any way. As someone who buys video gear year after year (though not at the Alexa level), I tend to stick to certain vendors and certain companies. If it was very difficult for me to purchase from a particular vendor or company I would simply not use their products. Similarly, if a company's products no longer met my needs, I'd move on to other products, and have done that on several occasions.

I guess I am just somewhat lost in the logic of your post unless it was just to vent that Sony was making your life unnecessarily difficult. And if that's the case, then I understand where you are coming from. Sony has made my life exceedingly easy, but perhaps that's because I am in the US.
 
My thread wasn't meant as a hard criticism to Sony's quality. I am criticising a business practice. Perhaps by writing in a forum like this, Sony may notice there is intelligent life outside the US, and money also…

But some people simply replied to me like I was expecting something for free. I am expecting to be able to buy and buy it in a simple way. Maybe Sony simply doesn't want to sell. But thanks for the "just drop Sony" advice, I will probably do it. But Sony won't notice anyway, it is losing so much money every year, what is a few bucks less…
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, aren't you talking about 2 separate products. If you bought the deck, they have no clue what camera you may be using with it, even though you are buying the F-3 at the same time. You still are talking about 2 different products. That would be a very good package deal though, if they were to pair the items up and throw in the firmware upgrade for the F-3 if you purchased the SR at same time.

BTW are you talking about the HDCam SR deck or is there a tapeless SR recorder coming out?

Want to see an Apple Forum. Go to reduser.com and post "Hey check out the new Epic Killer, Sony F-3" and watch the fun.
 
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