Please recommend the best external mic for $600 or less.

L

L1N3ARX

Well-known member
I am looking to spend no more than $600 on the best external mic I can get at that price. Even if its used or off ebay, I don't care. I looking to use the mic in conjunction with a boom pole.

On another note, does anybody know what kind of mic (if someone could point out a specific model...) would be used on a real movie? I'm guessing that like in most situations, there are different tools for different jobs, but as a rule, what would be a common professional mic used in a big movie / production, etc?
 
I think most people (most, not all) would say a sennhesier 416 or a rode ntg3. Used would have to be the way to go. But, most people say give an experienced person bad gear and she or he could do better than a rookie with great gear. Also, it matters what else you will be using with the microphone (i.e. mixer, recorder, wind protection, etc.). I would suggest searching through this website there are many posts that have been made about this topic.
 
gpforet said:
What are you recording on?
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I was using an H4N, borrowed actually. While it is nice and I had someone who knew what they were doing record the sound, it honestly didn't cut it for me. I'll be making a small film next month with some friends and I'm just gathering some of the last items I'm gonna need for my setup. I've used the Rode as well... like the H4N, its nice but it doesn't give me that super rich sound I'm looking for. If it means that I need to spend a few thousand dollars I might just do it and then resell it... but not if I don't have to.
 
Could you just hire a pro? Fixing sound in post is pretty expensive, so it is best to get recorded right the first time. Not trying to criticize at all, just trying to be supportive. If you are going to buy something, I think at a minimum get a mixpre to bring in a clean signal into the H4N. That is 500 used about, need a boom, good wind protection would be at least a rode blimp that is 300. If you have interior shots you can get decent sound (so I have heard) from an ntg3. But if you go hypercardioid that is another expense another with wind protection. Headphones another 85 bucks, xlr cables. It adds up. Consider hiring someone.
 
Just checked out some tests of the NTG-3, pretty impressive, sounds better than the 416 imo. Any other mic I should consider alongside the NTG-3 ?
 
L1N3ARX said:
On another note, does anybody know what kind of mic (if someone could point out a specific model...) would be used on a real movie? I'm guessing that like in most situations, there are different tools for different jobs, but as a rule, what would be a common professional mic used in a big movie / production, etc?
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There's no single mic that would be used on a "real movie". There are lavs, shotguns, hypercardioids, plate (pressure zone) mics... all sorts of tools for all sorts of purposes. The general starting point for those who don't have much experience is a shotgun for outdoors (Schoeps CMIT, Sennheiser MKH416, RØDE NTG-3, or on a really tight budget a RØDE NTG-2), and a hypercardioid for indoors (Oktava MK012, Audio Technica 4053b, Schoeps Colette).

Shotgun mics, as a general rule (that can be broken if you know what you're doing), do not work indoors.

L1N3ARX said:
I've used the Rode as well... like the H4N, its nice but it doesn't give me that super rich sound I'm looking for.
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That "super rich sound" really comes from proper placement and use of the mic in question. The mic has to be close; shotguns aren't miracle-workers. 6" - 20" is your effective working distance. And it has to be the right mic for the location.

Also, that "super rich sound" you hear in the movies is manufactured. Not only is dialog recorded properly, it is put through an intensive post-production regimen that beefs it up and makes it sound much more polished. Dialog is the focus of production recording; all the other sounds (shoes, paper, fabric, metal) that come from actors' actions are added in post through Foley and SFX.

L1N3ARX said:
If it means that I need to spend a few thousand dollars I might just do it and then resell it... but not if I don't have to.
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Really, you are getting into a very wide world of technology and technique. Your money may be better spent hiring a professional sound person who has both the equipment and the knowledge to do it right. Buying now with the intention of selling it off after the shoot means that you'll take a loss on the purchase.

If you simply must do it on your own, I suggest you start HERE and HERE before you buy anything. You're asking some pretty basic questions that have been answered several times over around here.
 
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Frankly, it's less about the mic and more about how it's used. Both the NTG-3 and and 416 will deliver if used properly. The 416 is the workhorse of the industry. If you're not satisfied with it's sound, then the first place I would look is technique. There's no magic mic. Spending thousands and not getting the mic within 18" or less of the talent is money wasted. If your desire is high quality sound for your productions, I second the recommendation to hire a professional. The skills required to deliver quality production audio are not something that comes easily, quickly, or cheaply. A quality mic, mounted in a quality shock mount and with appropriate wind protection, routed thru quality preamps (typically in a production mixer), recorded on a quality recorder, and operated by a skilled operator allowed to perform their work, will deliver quality sound. Take away any of these and the you'll get something less. Both the 416 and the NTG-3 when combined with the rest of the things I listed will work fine.
 
Your answer is the 416.

NTG 3 is good for you but not a pro mic. Though others may disagree, that's a different discussion all together.

On a side note, I fifth hiring a sound guy. Give me your money and I will get you what you need. Spend that money on gear and I'd say you're down a lot of money and up a crappy soundtrack. Which in turn equals a crappy movie.
 
I completely disagree Mitch. Not to take anything away from the 416... If you are buying a shotgun L1N3ARX, and you have 600.00, the NTG-3 comes in right at 600.00 and is absolutely a pro mic, even though it's not as popular as the 416 (because it's only been out a few short years vs 30+ on the 416), many pros use it every day. It sounds exactly the same as the 416 and comes with a 10 year warranty. The mic is designed for harsh environments (humidity, heat, cold). It's got a slightly wider pickup pattern than the 416, which some prefer, including me. Don't get me wrong, the 416 is a fine mic IMO, but it's 1,000.00 (they lowered the price from 1,200.00 because the NTG-3 ate way into their sales).

Here's a video that shows they sound exactly the same:

Here is the NTG-3 in use on a thing I did a while back, which youtube has raped, but you get an idea:
 
Interesting to watch the NTG-3s progress into the market, both pro and consumer. It went up against the 30yr old 416 (not being negative) which is an accepted pro standard and owned by nearly all the working pros around the world.

Consumers looking for shotgun advice are reading those pros posts which mostly say the 416 is the one to get. And this is because they've owned and used one since the year dot .. AND most don't have a desire to buy a new shotgun .. why should they?

Well their 416 sound is readily acceptable, the post houses are happy, the clients are happy, the rental outfits are happy so it's like .. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But the NTG-3 is very good, it's slightly wider pick up pattern is easier to work with so it certainly suits new boom ops and new folk in location sound who are still getting their chops together. IMO its slightly richer low end suits women and new actors who may not have fully developed their personal sound yet .. the price is right for prosumers and consumers and incidentally that market is far greater than the pro market.

After blind testing with other shotgun mics at Rode here, the NTG-3 bought great comments and smiles. After 2yrs in development Rode CEO Peter Freedman is more than happy, just after it was released he smilingly said to me .. try it :)

BnH have a nice package going at present, signature black NTG-3, XLR cable and shockmount for $US699. Sweet.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/765117-REG/Rode_NTG_3_B_H_Signature_Series.html

Cheers.
 
Chadfish said:
I completely disagree Mitch. Not to take anything away from the 416... If you are buying a shotgun L1N3ARX, and you have 600.00, the NTG-3 comes in right at 600.00 and is absolutely a pro mic
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I mean to do no harm when saying this about the NTG 3. Quality wise it is a great mic, not sure its exxxactly the same as the 416 but I know what you mean. I actually suggested the NTG3 to line. From my general knowledge rode in is just not a respected name for audio folk, but great for everyone else. When I was starting out I was told I would be sent home if I walked on set with anything less than a 416. My statement was not of quality but respect. Which goes a long way in this industry.
 
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Mitch,

If you don't tell them that you are using one of those cheapo NTG-3 mics, do you suppose they would even notice? I mean are they going to make you take your blimp apart and check? Whoever they is....I mean the microphone police. Would they mind if you used a CMIT or a CS3e?

Grant
 
Grant. You're completely right... I realized to disregard any useful tool to get the job done is pretty closed minded. Though I still would go for the 416.
 
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L1N3ARX said:
...On another note, does anybody know what kind of mic (if someone could point out a specific model...) would be used on a real movie? I'm guessing that like in most situations, there are different tools for different jobs, but as a rule, what would be a common professional mic used in a big movie / production, etc?
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You are correct that there are a wide variety of mics to be found in a professional location mixer's kit. If you're looking specifically at boom mics for dialog recording, arguably the industry standard 'go-to' mic would be the Schoeps CMC641 hypercardiod when working indoor locations. You can add one to your kit for a mere $2000. On sound stages or exterior locations, shotguns are commonly used, though in many cases a hyper such as the Schoeps will be found on booms outdoors as well as indoors. Common 'guns would include the Sennheiser MKH416, Sanken CS3e, Schoeps CMIT 5u, Neumann 81i. Rode NTG-3 is gaining popularity as an alternative to the 416. In the last few years Sennheiser has introduced the MKH80xx modular series with the MKH8050 and MKH8060 being especially well received. The Schoeps CMIT was designed with particular attention to intercutting smoothly with the 641. If you have the budget, having both a CMC641 hyper and a CMIT 5u 'gun in your kit covers just about all the bases where a boom mic would be used. But critically important note ... Wouldn't necessarily recommend getting those mics as a course of action for you - wouldn't hurt, of course, but you don't have to mortgage the farm to get top quality sound - as others have said you also have to have the skills to exploit the quality of top-shelf mics like those and mic position and handling is far more instrumental in getting that rich, 'Hollywood' big-feature sound than is the specifc choice of microphone make and model, at least once you get above the bargain basement. (There are some mics that are just plain c**p but we're not talking about those.) There's far less gain to be had in going from, say, even a Rode NTG-2 at $250 to a Schoeps CMIT at $2250 than there is in moving that Rode mic in from, say, 48 inches away from the talent down to 20 inches and having a boom operator who can follow the character's movements during the scene so his mouth stays in the mic's (relatively small) 'sweet-spot'.
 
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L1N3ARX said:
I was using an H4N, borrowed actually. While it is nice and I had someone who knew what they were doing record the sound, it honestly didn't cut it for me. I'll be making a small film next month with some friends and I'm just gathering some of the last items I'm gonna need for my setup. I've used the Rode as well... like the H4N, its nice but it doesn't give me that super rich sound I'm looking for. If it means that I need to spend a few thousand dollars I might just do it and then resell it... but not if I don't have to.
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There are a few things in here to consider. First off as others have said placement and the boom ops skill are VERY important. But also that "super rich" sound your thinking of is not just the raw audio. There is a LOT of work that goes into sound post on a "real" film. You need to start with good production tracks but that only takes you so far. The point is that you can't compare the sound of raw tracks with big budget polished tracks. Those big budget production tracks didn't sound like that either.

And as others also said there is no one mic that is used for everything.

Another point about comparisons. If you try comparing to classic films you need to remember that they were almost all shot on a sound stage. They had a very quiet sonically pretty dead space with the ability to get a mic really close. You can't get that in the field. I mean it's possible if you throw enough money at it but assume you can't and be safe.
 
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