Please advise - Mixing Footage

B

Burners

Well-known member
I am planning to use my 150 and DVX100 together filming events (final product a SD DVD 4:3)

I'm using Premiere CS4 (4.1) on a Core 2 Duo 2.4 PC

I'm planning to do the following:

1) Use 720/60p on the 150 (DVX - 60i (not enought light for 24p))
2) Set the 4:3 guide on the 150 LCD.

Now, I can transcode the 150 footage to DV but isnt that too much quality loss to then edit and subsequently render out again???

or

Transcode to DVCPro, then

Create a DV NTSC sequence in Premiere add the DVX footage and add the scaled down DVCpro sequence..

Then

Render out to uncompressed AVI DV NTSC for use in Encore.

Reasonable or a better way?, thanks
 
I had this issue when I was between SD and HD upgrade. I shot a theater show with a Sony PD170 SD and the HMC150.

Looking at the footage, I knew the HD would have far better quality if I just edited the 2 together and rendered as SD. I compressed the HMC footage down to the exact footage of the pd170 (720x480i). The footage looked more alike, although the hmc footage still had more detail and sharpness, it was workable.

Vegas also loved me for editing SD that day... now she crashes on me time to time eding my avchd.
 
Thanks Mad, which setting did you shoot the 150 in? Also, which format did you render out the 150 footage to 720x480i? (Quicktime, DV AVI, etc), thanks again!
 
I would convert all files to 720p (that would be cineform for me, but if you don't have that, use what you have)

I like 720p when mixing footage because:
1. You get a 720 HD master.
2. When mixing formats that are interlaced, you may have some parts that have interlace lines if you forgot to remove them, then you have to determine if it is an interlace issue, or a pulldown issue. Using 720...everything is progressive, no interlace, so you will catch potential problems right away.
 
True Green Hornet, but are you saying you up convert the SD video to 720 and remove the interlacing then?

You have to make sure the interlace is the same. I used exported 720x480i AVI with lower field first interlacing (same as MiniDV I was editing with). The file was huge but I didn't mind.

I believe I shot 720/60i HE Scene 1, come to think about it. I needed the lenght, not the quality of the HD video (since i knew it was going to SD)

Then I had Vegas use " glaussen(sp) blur - lower field first " to remove the interlacing of the final video.
 
Last edited:
MadHMC150 said:
True Green Hornet, but are you saying you up convert the SD video to 720 and remove the interlacing then?

You have to make sure the interlace is the same. I used exported 720x480i AVI with lower field first interlacing (same as MiniDV I was editing with). The file was huge but I didn't mind.

I believe I shot 720/60i HE Scene 1, come to think about it. I needed the lenght, not the quality of the HD video (since i knew it was going to SD)

Then I had Vegas use " glaussen(sp) blur - lower field first " to remove the interlacing of the final video.
Click to expand...

In cineform, you can do all that with check boxes.
DV is lower fields first,
HD is upper fields first.
Progressive is no fields (frames)

..Anyway, if you need to remove pulldown, you check it.
If you need to de-interlace, you check that.
If you have a 35mm adapter and the image is flipped, you check that.
Slow motion, check that.
speed up or slow down, check that... etc.

If you have to give it to a mac guy, check to re-wrap as a mov.

It is that easy.

Then the resulting footage comes out as a progressive 10 bit AVI file at 720p.

Then I edit these on the time line, and usually output a cineform file again.

This file I can import into TMPGEnc, and burn a dvd from the 720 file (it does all the downconversion on it's own) I never really see a DV file (480 file), so everything is always either 720p or 1080p on my hard drives.
 
Thanks for the info chaps.

I just have CS4 at my disposal, would Neoscene do what Mr Hornet is describing, that I could stretch too...

I think, as the delivery will be SD DVD I'll drop the 720/60p footage down to 720x480i as suggested by Mr Mad. as my Core 2 Duo will have an easier time of it during the editing.

That being the case, bearing in mind I'll have about 4 hours worth of footage, which is the best format to render this out to, to be re-import for editing? Is DV avi too lossy to edit?

..And last question if I may, in CS4 is it best to drop the 720/60p footage into a DV timeline, rescale, then export OR leave it in a 720/60p and just render that out changing the output format in the export settings???

Thanks very much for all the advice!

I didnt mention in my first post that the DVX is PAL, the HMC is switchable but the delivery must be NTSC SD DVD. DVfilm Atlantis does a very good job IMO of converting PAL into NTSC but this time round I
 
Burners said:
Thanks for the info chaps.

I just have CS4 at my disposal, would Neoscene do what Mr Hornet is describing, that I could stretch too...

I think, as the delivery will be SD DVD I'll drop the 720/60p footage down to 720x480i as suggested by Mr Mad. as my Core 2 Duo will have an easier time of it during the editing.

That being the case, bearing in mind I'll have about 4 hours worth of footage, which is the best format to render this out to, to be re-import for editing? Is DV avi too lossy to edit?

..And last question if I may, in CS4 is it best to drop the 720/60p footage into a DV timeline, rescale, then export OR leave it in a 720/60p and just render that out changing the output format in the export settings???

Thanks very much for all the advice!

I didnt mention in my first post that the DVX is PAL, the HMC is switchable but the delivery must be NTSC SD DVD. DVfilm Atlantis does a very good job IMO of converting PAL into NTSC but this time round I
Click to expand...

Neoscene can upscale to the same codec as prospect does.
The only real difference is that the footage will not edit any faster than as it will with prospect HD (once they fix that part).

I would upscale the image to 720p,
and edit that.

I would NEVER go to SD untill the footage hits the DVD.
Remember if you keep it in cineform it will stay 10 bit.

The reason store bough DVD's look so good (one of the reasons)
is it stays in higher bit color untill it hits the DVD.

I also like TMPGEnc for making DVD's as it will take any file you have and burn it to dvd as is. You don't have to make a sd version first.
You can also convert files with it. You can convert any file to any other file as long as you have the codec installed.
 
G Hornet,

It all does make sense - I guess it depends on the editing program you use. Neoscene isn't free and I haven't found the need to purchase it.

With Vegas, I use modified dvd architect export presets (mpg2) that are ready to burn on dvd. I haven't gotten around to CS4 yet.
 
OK, so if I put my raw DVX footage into a 720/60p timeline, scale it up (it will be going from 4:3 to 16:9, DVX pre-a model doesnt have a 16:9 mode) and then edit that with the 150 footage??? That involes scaling the DVX footage up by a scale of 145%, isnt that going to look horrible even after eventually rendering out to SD?
 
Burners said:
OK, so if I put my raw DVX footage into a 720/60p timeline, scale it up (it will be going from 4:3 to 16:9, DVX pre-a model doesnt have a 16:9 mode) and then edit that with the 150 footage??? That involes scaling the DVX footage up by a scale of 145%, isnt that going to look horrible even after eventually rendering out to SD?
Click to expand...

As a test, I just rendered out some footage shot on an old hand held camera
a sony trv900 from about 9 years ago. It is DV, and square, not 16x9.
I upressed it in cineform to 720p, and then pulled it into premiere.

When working with 4:3, not 16:9 SD images, you have to resize them untill just outside of the title safe area, so it won't be exactly full 1280, but it will be 720.
On the internet it will show as pillar boxed, but when rendered out, it should fill a plasma screen almost to the right and left edges. It actually will look 16:9 to most casual viewers, but the most astute, will notice the pilliar box.

It looks good
 
That was my concern also. I don't think you will have any less quality from the SD. If you use the highest quality when converting up and compressing back down, it should be the same.

Every time you use up converting you get interpolation (pixels inserted between existing ones) - So you could get better resolution technically. Doesn't mean its going to look any better, depends on how good the interpolation is.

Ack - started this post before you answered hornet :beer:
 
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