Plea to Panasonic re HDX servo zoom

S

Stas_Tagios

Well-known member
While everyone else seems to be mainly discussing and debating the merits of P2, my biggest concern about the HDX200 is that it have a usable servo zoom, namely a servo control with the finesse and variability of a real ENG or cine lens, that can do a super slow creep and a super fast crash zoom.

Panasonic put a great servo zoom in their DVC30, that was far superior to the ones in both the DVX100 and the DVX100A, with a slow zoom that took 100 secs to traverse the entire zoom range, and a fast zoom that took a second or less. It would be wonderful if a similar servo control could be incorporated in the HDX200, without, of course, sacrificing the ability to disengage the servo for manual zooming.

The DVX100 is a hell of a camera, but the main drawback for me was its servo zoom, which lacked the finesse needed to do zoom creeps (a favorite technique of mine) and super fast zooms (though for these you can go manual), and to smoothly switch speeds during a zoom. Any DVX footage where I need a slow creep, I've had to resort to adding it in post, and there's always a limit to how much you can scale the image up before it becomes obvious, or down before you start seeing the frame borders.

The one more appealing aspect of JVC's new pro-HD camera over the HDX200 is the Fujinon lens, a real servo and manual lens. Of course, the HDX wins in virtually every other respect, at least from the initial specs and its ability to shoot real HD. With an improved servo zoom control, the HDX will be unstoppable.
 
Of course, you realise DVC30 came out long after DVX100, right? Probably a newer, smaller design.

There are several zoom controllers that connect directly to the lens and operate mechanically.
They are used all the time for Jimmy-Jib and Steadicam applications. Check out Heden and Benz.
 
thisiswells said:
Also, 100A has a greatly improved servo over the 100... have you tried it?
Click to expand...

It's improved, yes, but not that much (from a 15 sec slow zoom to a 30 sec.). Still not the level of control of an ENG lens or that of the DVC30. I imagine that Panasonic improved the 100A servo as best they could without redesigning the entire lens assembly, and am hoping that with the HDX, they can incorporate a servo control more like that in the DVC30.

I mentioned this to one of the product reps at NAB (Not Jan. Didn't get a chance to talk to her, but did attend the DVXuser HDX preview), but I'm not sure he quite understood what I was getting at. He responsed that improving the servo zoom was not a big concern for them. Sure, the camera's going to break ground in so many other ways, but wouldn't it be great if it had a professional-level servo zoom control to boot?

As for the Benz & Heden zoom controllers, how would they interface with the DVX/HDX's lens? Aren't these primarily for use with standard ENG and cine lenses?
 
Sure certain eng/efp lenses may have a longer servo zoom time, but the lenses
are actually longer. Your camera, for example has a 16x lens and can do a full range in sixty seconds.

In reality, since the dvx has only a 10x, it's not that much different since it's a shorter range.

DVX100A 10X zoom=30 seconds
DVC30 10X zoom=36 seconds
 
As for mechanical zoom controllers, we used one designed for a Fujinon/Digibeta/JimmyJib
setup with a stock, no frills DVX just by mounting the gear motor onto the zoom ring on the DVX.
I think we removed the little "pin" from the zoom ring, but otherwise there was nothing specialised.
Worked fine. The results are on CMT's Popularity Contest show Friday nights at 8pm Est/Pac.

brian wells
 
I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of lenses, especially with the DVX, but during the DVXuser even at NAB, Jan said that the new lens was cam-driven. Adding also that it was a great improvement over the DVX models.

Maybe that answers the question.

-CJ
 
thisiswells said:
Sure certain eng/efp lenses may have a longer servo zoom time, but the lenses are actually longer.
Click to expand...

I mentioned the time to traverse the zoom range only to illustrate that it's a true zoom creep, barely perceptible. Didn't mean to suggest that the length of time it takes to zoom from wide to tight is the sole indicator of how slow the servo can zoom the lens (it's the speed in relation to the focal length). The 100A's slowest speed is not as imperceptible a creep zoom as you can achieve with a Cine or ENG lens, nor is it as slow in relation to the DVC30, even given the DVC30's longer focal length. Let's just say I'd like a much slower slow speed and faster fast speed regardless of the focal length.

thisiswells said:
Your camera, for example has a 16x lens and can do a full range in sixty seconds.

In reality, since the dvx has only a 10x, it's not that much different since it's a shorter range.

DVX100A 10X zoom=30 seconds
DVC30 10X zoom=36 seconds
Click to expand...

To clarify, I don't have a DVC30, I have a DVX100. Have used the 100A on a bunch of shoots and only played around with the DVC30 at some trade shows.

Thanks for the info about the Benz & Heden controls. Of course, I'd still rather have a better internal servo, since it eliminates the need to rent, plus less gear hanging off the camera for handheld shooting. After all, the camera's small, unobtrusive size is one of the benefits of shooting with it versus shooting with a decked-out film camera or shoulder-mount HD camera.
 
I agree with all of that--I'd like to see more speed range options on both ends of the zoom servo.
I'd rather see it built in to the camera instead of aftermarket, as add-on mechanical options are
outside of my price range for what I am willing to spend to get that effect. DVC30 is a cool camera.
 
Yes, the zoom is difficult to master. Using the rocker switch(es), it's difficult to begin a slow crawl up to and down to a certain speed.

Here are some HVX and/or DVX zoom feature ideas I would like:


  1. New Zoom Control
    1. An iPod like wheel that included an adjustable resistance. This wheel would allow you to spin it with your finger tip around the whole 360 rotation and continue spinning. It would provide very precise direct feedback. If you haven't had a chance to try an iPod (I have an older 20gb model that I am using as an example) then do so. It would be very easy to start from a full stop and then gradually speed up to a full zoom.
    2. Alternate zoom control A wheel edge. In this case the wheel would be partial exposed with its edge used for the rotation surface. A dial and you would rotate it by its edge.
    3. In either example above, spinning the dial/wheel too fast would be fine. The zoom would simply move at the fastest rate possible.
  2. Automatic zoom speed hold and decreasing stop.
    1. It would be very cool if the zoom would continue at the rate dialed in. For example, you would begin the zoom by pressing the rocker until the speed desired is reached. When you let go of the rocker (or wheel as in idea above) the zoom continues until you press the rocker again to increase or descrease the speed.
    2. Also, include an automatic decreasing stop. As the zoom approaches the limit of its range, it would begin a automatic decrease in speed until it comes to a full stop right at its limit (full in/out zoom).
I think these features would make for an amazing zoom control and icing on the cake.

:thumbsup:
 
I totally agree with Stag - the 100A lens is an improvement, but in a professional environment, the creep zoom in/out is not that smooth. Yes, it's a little slower, but it still does not match a real ENG lens. How important is this feature to me- HUGE.

I use a Zoe controller all the time, and have sampled ALL available on the market including this NAB 05. The zoom control is not the problem- it can only function as good as the lens/motors are built. While there are some zoom controllers that are better than others, there still is a small jump at the start/finish, a jump when you switch directions, and no feathering when trying to stop the zoom. It's either on or off. The motor that drives the zoom function internally in the lens, as well as the external control on the camera, needs to be more sensitive for professional looking camera moves.

So, I do hope Panasonic is paying attention and upgrade's the Leica lens zoom function. The Sony Z1 and the JVC new camera both have great control and will give you a broadcast quality zoom if desired. Yes, it is important!!
 
Agreed. I have been lobbying for this; the DVC30's servo zoom is magnificent, but it doesn't have the option to go true manual. I don't know what compromises are involved; I'd hate to give up true manual just to get better servo, but I'm not satisfied that the servo on the DVX100A is going to be competitive enough on the HVX.

So we're lobbying!
 
Barry_Green said:
Agreed. I have been lobbying for this; the DVC30's servo zoom is magnificent, but it doesn't have the option to go true manual. I don't know what compromises are involved; I'd hate to give up true manual just to get better servo, but I'm not satisfied that the servo on the DVX100A is going to be competitive enough on the HVX.

So we're lobbying!
Click to expand...
Excellent! I was impressed with the DVC30's zoom when I saw the cam at NAB last year (I don't think there's been another handycam from any company with a servo zoom so closely replicating the finesse of a pricey ENG lens), but also wondered whether Panasonic could make a servo zoom with such fine control while still retaining the manual control, and housing it all in the DVX/HDX's small form factor; who knows exactly how the DVX servo motor and zoom ring interact and work?

Hopefully they'll figure out how to do it; I don't want to give up the manual control either. It would be a shame to have such a capable camera hampered by a mediocre servo zoom.
 
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