Playing with hypergammas

macgregor

Veteran
I'm sure most of you have probably read this article by fabulous Art Adams: http://provideocoalition.com/aadams/story/non_technical_f35_guide/P4
If you haven't, you should. Now the problem is that since Art wrote that article, Sony upgraded the hypergammas in the F35. If I recall correctly, by that time, the best hypergammas were able to reach 400% and now they go up to 800%.

So I decided to give this a try and see how they compare with Slog, the holy grial.
If you have the latest firmware upgrade you should have the following in your camera:

hg.jpg


I was planning on writing a long article but who's gonna read? I'll just cut to the results.
Basically the curves that interest me are 5 to 8. Because those give the maximum DR in the highlights while preserving a nice contrasty image that should not require LUTs or color grading.

The recorder I'm using is the hyperdeck shuttle 2 recording to prores. And here comes the trick. Prores seems to only like signals up to 100IRE, above that, and highglights are gone (not really gone but we can't see them). So with that in mind, I'm ruling out hypergammas 7 and 8, since those set the white point on 109. 5 and 6 seem to be the most interesting: whites are compressed down to 100IRE so I should be able to see all those nice highlights while preserving a nice contrast while on the editing room. No need for any LUTs.
Now the difference between HG 5 and HG6 is where midtones are. The higher the better in this case, so that skin tones are bright and clean and our beautil talent does not complain about how she looks on the screen. So there we go HG5 wins.
All this is the theory. Now lets shoot some stuff:

hypegama.jpg


A couple high contrast set ups and done. Yep, HG5 seems to be the best for such a workflow. Dynamic range seems to be identical to Slog (bit precision should not). Slog still might be easier to manipulate in post, but that's the point, if we don't want, or can't spend hours doing color grading Hypergamma 5 is a fantastic trade off. It looks nice as it comes from the camera, and we are not loosing a huge amount of information. So for low budget commercials, music videos and corporate stuff this is great.

THe final image is not that different from graded Slog, but what's better for my workflow is being able to better judge the footage while editing, and being able to solve the prores 100IRE porblem when editing in PC.

Now, on this quick tests I didn't have a model to check skintones, that will be the next step.
 
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Yes, the hypergammas seem logical and have their benefits for quick workflow on cheaper/quicker jobs.
I've done a few quick ones on HG8 and 9, looked great, but the highlight issues, so you right, HG5 with 100% white wins.

Thanks Mac.
 
Yes, but bad news, they don't work properly and Steve claims it should just work.
The gammas clip blacks in a bad way with lots of banding and noise. I tried everything and all of Steves suggestions, but no luck. to be honest he wasn't very helpful, He was happy to take my money, but not happy to get me happy.

But I think it might have to do with the latest F35 update maybe?
 
Super helpful info, Mac. I'm using a Samurai recording to DNxHD (not ProRes). As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to have any problems recording to 109%. So Hypergamma #7 might be an option on this kind of a set up. Plus the grey point is a bit higher still at 40%. I'll test it some this weekend. But for quick turn around projects there's a lot to be said for pre-baking the whites down to 100% and being done with it, so in actual use I'd probably go with HG #5 and not worry about scaled vs. non-scaled data.

-k
 
Thanks for that chart, it is very helpful. That article is great if you are trying to understand slog vs hyper gamma, i liked the idea of filling your "bit bucket" . Whose gonna learn cvp editor and make some film stock looks built right into the f35?
 
Menu A38 has an option for Black Gamma, turning it off actually looks better to my eye. It appears to crush the blacks more when turned on, off I am seeing more details in the shadows. Of course, the blacks are richer when it is on. This would only matter if you were shooting hyper gamma, but I wonder which way it should be set for a "standard" setting. I will post some screens to show the difference.
 
I finally played with some hypergammas on a few shoots that needed quick turnarounds. After some tests with hypergamma 7, I finally decided on Hypergamma 5 (preserve those highlights), +3db, and -5 on the blacks. In low light I would bring the blacks back up to 0.
Here's a still from the other day!

With the Sigma 18-35
tony.png
 

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Hi, where did you set the blacks to -5? In the camera or in post?
Is that shot graded at all or straight from the recorder in prores?
 
Hi Mac,
This is straight out of the camera from hyperdeck in prores.
I set the blacks under
Paint-Page 3 (Gamma)-Hypergamma 5, and theres an option for black under M, which I dialed to -5.

Another mportant thing is that the color space was set to F900 instead of s-gamut, more saturated and lifelike
 
Jo those are some nice saturated colors coming straight out of camera. I found like you said, shooting S Gamut Color lead to muted colors that needed to be tweaked up.

I still think shooting with the MLUT and burning it in looks better than Hypergamma 5. Not sure why but I feel like there is less noise and more life in the color.
 
Jo those are some nice saturated colors coming straight out of camera. I found like you said, shooting S Gamut Color lead to muted colors that needed to be tweaked up.

I still think shooting with the MLUT and burning it in looks better than Hypergamma 5. Not sure why but I feel like there is less noise and more life in the color.

How do you do this? out of the monitor out?

I'm going to test Amira vs F35 tomorrow for an upcoming project.
 
Yachacha, do we load the luts onto the sony memory card and set one of the custom buttons to activate it on and off?
 
Yes you're correct only monitor out works. You must turn off the little MLUT character that appears in the corner when MLUT is activated (Menu 27 bottom turn MLUT Mark OFF). Then assign a button to MONI MLUT. In this mode you are limited to 4 ISO settings and 3200k and 5600k.

I will try my best to post some comparasions between hyper gamma 5 settings and burned in MLUT setting. I messed with hyper gamma settings for a while but was always happier when I switched back to MLUT.

I am using the standard MLUT that come preloaded into the camera. You can turn it on/off in menu It would be great to figure out CVP editor to import other LUTs into the F35 to use.
 
Yes you're correct only monitor out works. You must turn off the little MLUT character that appears in the corner when MLUT is activated (Menu 27 bottom turn MLUT Mark OFF). Then assign a button to MONI MLUT. In this mode you are limited to 4 ISO settings and 3200k and 5600k.

I will try my best to post some comparasions between hyper gamma 5 settings and burned in MLUT setting. I messed with hyper gamma settings for a while but was always happier when I switched back to MLUT.

I am using the standard MLUT that come preloaded into the camera. You can turn it on/off in menu It would be great to figure out CVP editor to import other LUTs into the F35 to use.


very interesting!
 
Wonderful posts mac. I gotta play more. Also i sent the f35 to convergent design. Hopefully they can mess w it and make the 07q grab 12 bit out of this big fat bulky beast so i can tell my mother i can do 12 bit. Hehe.
 
Yes you're correct only monitor out works. You must turn off the little MLUT character that appears in the corner when MLUT is activated (Menu 27 bottom turn MLUT Mark OFF). Then assign a button to MONI MLUT. In this mode you are limited to 4 ISO settings and 3200k and 5600k.

I will try my best to post some comparasions between hyper gamma 5 settings and burned in MLUT setting. I messed with hyper gamma settings for a while but was always happier when I switched back to MLUT.

I am using the standard MLUT that come preloaded into the camera. You can turn it on/off in menu It would be great to figure out CVP editor to import other LUTs into the F35 to use.

I thought you can do this? Upload luts to F35? I never did but I read it is possible some place here on forum?
 
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