pirating DVDs is BAD!

Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=Barry_S link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=0#8 date=12/02/04 at 08:29:47]Philistines!  [/quote]

lMAO!
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

That's right. That's why I have to go through airport security twice a week. Why don't people just love flying and want to hijack/bomb/shoot down airplanes?

BAD APPLES. BAD APPLES. BAD APPLES. BAD APPLES. BAD APPLES. BAD APPLES.

Wait a minute! I am not original here. Anyone has seen 'The Corporation'? What did you think of it (technically and artistically, not politically;) )?
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=Jim Brennan link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#19 date=12/02/04 at 11:12:02]For me there are no gray areas.  If you take something that does not belong to you without paying, or without permission (permission being granted for broadcast TV) you are stealing.  I don't care if "nobody gets hurt" or any of the other arguments.  It is not only illegal, it is unethical.[/quote]
Okay, so I am going to re-phrase my earlier question:
Say, a film maker makes a movie that is promptly banned by his government. It's an important movie dealing with an issue of political oppression in his native country. Somehow, an 'illegal' copy makes it out to the 'free world'. People will start watching the movie and copying it. Even if they pay for it, the filmmaker has no means of actually receiving the money. But there is a message in the film that needs to be shared with the rest of the world.
Is it still piracy? If we paid for copies, to whom should the money go? Is more ethical to comply with copyright laws and not copy the film, or to let the rest of the world know about the plight of fellow human beings in a remota country?

In my opinion, the modern copyright laws are the product of an over-commercialized society. How do you think the Bible got spread? Do you think the monks were paying royalties when they were manually copying the work? Is Bible protected by copyright? I own it, am I not allowed to photocopy it? In the past, people created a wealth of popular culture (songs, nursery rhymes, fairy tales) without any expecation of royalties. The only way we can enjoy these today is because other people 'stole' them and pass them on.

So much for B&W.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=P.K. Gillock link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#18 date=12/02/04 at 11:11:23]Now please don't leave your home for the next 30 minutes. I called the police on your MP3 stealing a**!!!!   :o

[/quote]

Thanks PK! - They are kicking down my door as we speak! >:(
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=Jerry XCheck link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#22 date=12/02/04 at 11:30:56]
Okay, so I am going to re-phrase my earlier question:
Say, a film maker makes a movie that is promptly banned by his government. It's an important movie dealing with an issue of political oppression in his native country. Somehow, an 'illegal' copy makes it out to the 'free world'. People will start watching the movie and copying it. Even if they pay for it, the filmmaker has no means of actually receiving the money. But there is a message in the film that needs to be shared with the rest of the world.
Is it still piracy? If we paid for copies, to whom should the money go? Is more ethical to comply with copyright laws and not copy the film, or to let the rest of the world know about the plight of fellow human beings in a remota country?

In my opinion, the modern copyright laws are the product of an over-commercialized society. How do you think the Bible got spread? Do you think the monks were paying royalties when they were manually copying the work? Is Bible protected by copyright? I own it, am I not allowed to photocopy it? In the past, people created a wealth of popular culture (songs, nursery rhymes, fairy tales) without any expecation of royalties. The only way we can enjoy these today is because other people 'stole' them and pass them on.

So much for B&W.[/quote]

Point taken, but some pretty rare examples of oppressed material that might be needed to be secretly shared with the world.

I'm guessing, but I don't think the producers of "Daredevil" have anything they want to share with the world via some secret underground. It's all about the Benjamin's $$
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

Nice Jim. Well written, articulate, and to the point. You got my vote.

I agree with everything you said, but here in Thailand the problem is completely different. There is no right & wrong, or even logic. Here it's in their culture to copy. They all copy each other in class, on homework and on tests, and in the business world. It's in their culture to support one another as a community (sharing everything!).  Which is beautiful in theory. But the western cultures are now telling Thai culture that you can't copy us. Of course they're confused and don't understand what the problem is.  I spend most of my time in class telling my students "DON'T COPY!" and they just look at me with blank stares, then go back to copying. I explain to them that copying keeps thailand uneducated and poor. But it's like trying to tell 1000 years of culture that they are wrong. There are 10 telephone shops at the mall (all next to each other) because business owners just copy the shop next to them. Which is completely acceptable business practice. The education is so bad that nobody can think for themselves.  I opened a computer shop at the mall and 2 months later another com shop opened right next to me. I was furious, but all my Thai employees said, "What's the problem? Don't worry about it."  It's really frustrating and sad. Sorry to rant.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

Okay, I'll grant you the oppressive government gray area. I guess living here in the US, I don't think about that.

But again, my concern is not the royalties. (Artists and authors see far less of the dollar spent than the publishers, etc) My point is that everything has value. (If it didn't have some subjective value, no one would want it) Value is a personal thing, and it is different from price, which is more objective. IF you want something, it has value. The question is "how much value?" It either has enough value for you to trade something for it (money, time, barter, service), or it doesn't. If it has enough value for you to WANT it, but not enough to PAY for it in some way, then we run into a problem. Even primitive man understood the concept of value, but they had it easier, because value was ascribed to concrete items, not abstract thoughts and interpretations. This is where the famous "gray area" comes in to play. I assure you that this is a dangerous thing. I realize that this is all philosophical, but we all live by our own philosophies. They are called personal ethics. But if you want something more concrete, it's not unlike inflation. If you print more money, the money becomes less valuable, meaning you need more money. It's a downward spiral. When we take these things (meaning intellectual copyrights, not physical goods) they begin lose their individual objective value because they are virtually costless to reproduce.

But basically, for me it's an issue of ethics. I don't take things that don't belong to me (under less than life-threatening situations), and I don't really understand people who do.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=P.K. Gillock link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#25 date=12/02/04 at 11:47:19]I agree with everything you said, but here in Thailand the problem is completely different. There is no right & wrong, or even logic. Here it's in their culture to copy. They all copy each other in class, on homework and on tests, and in the business world. It's in their culture to support one another as a community (sharing everything!).  Which is beautiful in theory.  But I spend most of my time in class telling my students "DON'T COPY!" they just look at me with blank stares, then go back to copying. I explain to them that copying keeps thailand uneducated and poor.  But they just smile and say "mai pen rai" (no problem). The government, the police, NOBODY has told anyone to stop. There are 10 telephone shops at the mall (all next to each other) because business owners just copy the shop next to them. The education is so bad that nobody can think for themselves. It's really frustrating and sad. Sorry to rant.[/quote]

I think that reality is my fear. That kind of cultural shift about what is objectively "right" and "wrong" is at the root of this problem. That is what awaits us if this continues.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=Jerry XCheck link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#22 date=12/02/04 at 11:30:56]
Okay, so I am going to re-phrase my earlier question:
Say, a film maker makes a movie that is promptly banned by his government. It's an important movie dealing with an issue of political oppression in his native country. Somehow, an 'illegal' copy makes it out to the 'free world'. People will start watching the movie and copying it. Even if they pay for it, the filmmaker has no means of actually receiving the money. But there is a message in the film that needs to be shared with the rest of the world.
Is it still piracy? If we paid for copies, to whom should the money go? Is more ethical to comply with copyright laws and not copy the film, or to let the rest of the world know about the plight of fellow human beings in a remota country?

[/quote]

People need to consider the long-term dangers of setting precedents in situations that may be seen as exceptions. If you look at the U.S. legal system, English Common Law, it is built upon past court cases that have established precedents, which define the laws of our ever growing legal code.

There have been many court cases in this country where judges have ruled on the side of relative injustice to prevent setting a harmful precedent. A precedent that down the road could potentially justify favorable rulings for defendants (or plaintiffs for that matter) in cases that are by no means exceptions or justifiable by rational standards.


I cannot speak for International law, but when speaking of pirating in the U.S. we need to be very careful about looking or fighting for exceptions where pirating may be allowed. This thinking could ultimately justify situations that are not at all justifiable.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

Hey, what happened to c.g._eads?? The starter of this topic. Ohhh I see, he yells FIRE! in the theater and then runs. Real nice c.g. Now get back in here and clean up your mess ;)

The same thing happened on another topic and Dakotapod pointed it out. Maybe the person who starts a thread should be forced to stick around and finish it!
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=P.K. Gillock link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#29 date=12/02/04 at 12:13:56]get back in here and clean up your mess   ;)

[/quote]

PK - I dig you! ;D
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

[quote author=natob2 link=board=Offtopic;num=1101976473;start=15#28 date=12/02/04 at 12:06:58]I cannot speak for International law, but when speaking of pirating in the U.S. we need to be very careful about looking or fighting for exceptions where pirating may be allowed.  This thinking could ultimately justify situations that are not at all justifiable.
[/quote]
Agreed. That's why I think it's correct to separate 'ethical' and 'legal'. There are many instances of behavior that are utterly unethical but considered legal, and vice versa. Mahatma Gandhi was highly ethical, although many of his actions were not considered legal at the time.

So, in some cases, what could be considered 'piracy' by legal definition, could actually be ethical, and in the long term, even beneficial for humanity.

Take the story of UN haggling over providing AIDS drugs to impoverished countries in Africa. Should they get them for free? Wouldn't that be considered a 'theft', especially in light of the fact that many drug companies are vehemently opposed to it, but the governments and NGOs are forcing them to do it anyway? Or should it be considered our moral responsibility to help those people?

I guess there are more questions than answers, and all I am saying is that statements 'there are no grey areas' may have long term consequences, especially if applied blindly without regard for individual circumstances. The law is an ass!

Of course, then there are the 'million bucks for spilled coffee' lawsuits that make the whole law thing a farce.

Everyone must be tired of my ranting, so I'll retire for now. It's been a really interesting thread, though!

Jerry

P.S. I agree that pirating DVDs produced under 'normal' circumstances (whatever that means) is BAD! And, I don't do it!
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

P.K., I would comment if this thread went anywhere close to where I wanted it to go, which was the discussion of the general public's perception of image quality. I guess it was the subject line that confused everyone.

Anyway, as far as pirating is concerned, I admit that I pirate music *occasionally*, but never movies, as that would be quite hypocritical. The idea behind pirating music, and I think a lot of people share this view, is that the music industry has been getting away with murder for decades. They have grossly overpriced everything and we just had to suck it up and deal with it. It's kind of nice to be able to get back at them and force them into an ultimately fair price, which is exactly what happened.

But I'm trying to be good. No more pirating for me.

c.g.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

I don't see how pirating one thing is hypocritical, and pirating something else isn't
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

And I have to address something else in your post.

I don't know what effect pirating had in the current price of CD's, so I can't comment on whether that "worked" or not.  (Although I will go as fas as to say that I doubt some 13 year old downloading Eminem was concerned about some greater "cause")  But that does not make stealing any more ethical.  I have to premise this statement with the fact that we are talking about an entertainment commodity, not some life saving drug.  If Sony music sign an artist and they record a CD, and Sony wants to charge 25 bucks for it, that's their right.  It goes back to my previous post about "value".  If that CD is worth 25 bills to somebody, they will pay it.  If it's not, they don't want it that badly.  Now if enough people didn't ascribe that value, the price would fall.  Perhaps the artist would be deemed a failure, or the marketing department would be blamed, but that CD wouldn't sell unless people were willing to pay for it.  Now if you expand that to the entire market, and assume that all CD's are objectively overpriced (which I can sort of believe, due to production costs) then people would no longer buy them.  But in fact it is not an issue of objectivity.  It is an issue of taste and marketing.  People pay for what they believe is worth the price they are paying for it.  That is entirely subjective.  I'd pay 15 bucks for a Great Big Sea CD, but I wouldn't pay a dollar for Britney Spears.  Subjective.  Take that further and say that if we all believed that no artist was worth 20 bucks for a CD, and we'd have an argument.  It comes down to supply and demand.  It's all about what the market will bear.  If someone is willing to pay top dollar to hear some jackass with a band aid on his face, then they have every right to charge top dollar.  It's their product.

Now before you call me a demon seed son of a capitalist beyotch, understand a basic premise of economics.  You can price yourself right out of the market.  What this does is open up a playing field for smaller, independent companies.  Given the current technology, if you had a band, recorded and mixed them on your PC, burned a thousand CD's and marketed them well on the Internet, you could charge 10-12 bucks a disc and still make a profit.  But, for most people it's easier to blame the big corporations (who are evil in many ways, no doubt) for the problems than to actually do something about it.
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

Amen.

Most people (including myself - sometimes) like to ***** about this and that, but when it comes to the actual action, we just line up and shut up. We prefer to complain about the price but then go and buy the crap anyway. Don't let me start on how many useless DV gizmos I've bought that are clearly overpriced, but I wanted them badly enough...
 
Re: pirating DVDs is BAD!

Hey Phil... If it's that one hit wonder that can't be found in any cd shop, then chances are that it's not in print anymore. This says to me that the people who produced it originally figure nobody wants it and there is no profit in relasing it. If I download it nobody is loosing. It has been abandoned has it not?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top