FS5: Picture Profile setting causing odd 'flashing' of footage in Premiere cc15

M

mattjeh

Well-known member
TLDR: Is anyone having problems using FS5 footage shot in certain picture profiles causing ‘flashing’ within Premiere Pro cc15?

In depth, Here goes.
I have been out filming today with my FS5, getting the footage into premiere pro cc15 (up to date) immediately I have been having random ‘flashing’ on the footage when in the sequence. I found an old thread on the adobe forums detailing similar issues and found this video which shows the same flashing I am having a problem with https://vimeo.com/114359269.

I have been able to clarify that the flashing is directly related to the picture profile setting that I filmed in today. I filmed with SLOG2 and S-Gamut 5500K. The only other change from default I think was a -3 black level. All footage from the day is effected, footage in UHD, HD, slow motion at 200fps and quick motion at 1fps.

Footage shot with no picture profile setting, or standard PP settings are not effected by this flashing. I conducted a brief test this evening with and without this particular PP. And the standard PP and PP-off clips have no flashing.

The clips coming out of the camera seem to be error free themselves, I sent a colleague one of the clips and he had no flashing on the footage when also using Prem Pro cc15. Also, VLC and DaVinci resolve is clear of flashing, suggesting that the issue is somewhere in how PPcc15 is playing back the footage.

It gets more complicated. When creating a new sequence, dropping in the clip or creating a new sequence from the clip, the first time it plays it plays without problems. But then once I scrub back and play it again, the flashing occurs. This happens with both the UHD and HD, on all sequence settings. Changing sequence settings to various other suitable settings (H264, ProRES etc) makes no difference.

The flashing is present when playing the clip in the preview / source window and also present on the export.

Using a previous project with FS5 footage in, no flashing occurs. Bring in footage shot today in the Picture Profile listed above and the flashing occurs on the same sequence. I can't recall the exact pic profile I used on the previous project, but I had no issues with it at all.

All indicators point to an issue with the way PPcc15 is handling the footage shot with this particular profile, as the problem is not there with other footage from the same camera.

The flashing occurs when using all 3 of the GPU options, OpenCL, CUDA and software. All cache files have been deleted during the troubleshooting process but with no success.

I am running a 2009 Mac Pro, with El Capitan 10.11.2 (10.11.1 when the problem first occurred) 2 x 3.46 6-Core. 32GB RAM and a correctly flashed Nvidia GTX980 Ti 6144 MB. So CUDA is the native state, I have had no problems up until this point. I updated the CUDA drivers also, with no success (I have since re-installed the previous drivers, released sometime in October).

I’ve said ‘flashing’ a LOT in this post. Has anyone had a similar problem? A fix that has worked? I’ve spoken to adobe support and he just did a lot of on/off kind of testing, didn’t come up with anything useful. But that was before I was able to establish that the footage itself is clear of problems.

I’m a bit lost here.

Edit:
Additional. I’ve just attempted to apply some colour correction to the footage, using the HD 50fps footage. My Mac is grinding to a halt with one simple colour shift applied using three-way corrector.

This same machine has no problem running 2 streams of UHD XAVC-L footage in previous projects, both with colour correction without a single dropped frame. I have made no changes to software or hardware since this shift in performance and the flashing problem. Premiere does not like this picture profile at all. I just don't understand how it can make a difference to how Premiere runs it, none of it makes sense.

What the heck is going on?!
 
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After further testing of an effected clip on a colleagues Mac, he is also seeing the flashing. Which means it’s a definite issue with how PremPro is interpreting this footage when filmed in SLOG2.

Exporting an effected clip into h264 and adding it to the sequence will not present the flashing. Adobe after effects runs the clip without any issue.


Just spoke to Jamie, after he added the footage to another sequence with other footage and moved it around a little, he is also seeing the flashing. Which means it’s a definite issue with how Prem is interpreting the footage.


This is a clip which has the problem: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6jx7sb4sp6k5h1a/Clip0025.MXF?dl=0 If you attempt to test this, open and play on a new sequence (it probably won't flash) then add it to a different sequence, or add other clips in, move things about, this is when the flashing usually presents itself.
 
Experiment worth trying-- bring the footage into Catalyst Browse, delot, and export as Rec709 into ProRes. Bring the clip into PremierePro and see what happens.

I just picked up an FS5 for testing and I'll add that to my list to test

Ned Soltz

Update-- Downloaded your clip. Played in VLC without flashing. Brought into PremierePro CC2015 and did get flashing. Did some simple color correction with a Lumetri curve and still flashing. MacPro 2013, 6 core, Dual D700 (so no nVidia to blame), 32gb RAM, GTech Studio RAID. No problems, by the way, playing back at full res. That's either your machine or your storage or both.

So concerned about this strange behavior that I'm skipping my morning workout ;)

Update 2 -- Brought clip into Catalyst Prepare, applied LC709A LUT and exported as ProRes HQ in your same 1920x1080 50. Brought into PremierePro and no flickering.

It might be a better idea as the post below suggests to transcode to ProRes anyway. This will help your older machine handle the stress of long GOP XAVC. Its a pretty intense codec to decode.

All for now. I'll shoot some SLog2 and test. But I don't have any scenic waterfalls close at hand.
 
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FXI: FCPX does not read single XMF files from XAVC-L.
You either have to import from the original card or to convert single XAVC-L files to an intraframe codec.
I downloaded your file and converted it with http://www.divergentmedia.com/editready EditReady to ProRes:
absolutely no issue. Smooth playback, no flicker.

edited:
off course into an INTRA frame coded
 
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nsoltz said:
Experiment worth trying-- bring the footage into Catalyst Browse, delot, and export as Rec709 into ProRes. Bring the clip into PremierePro and see what happens.

I just picked up an FS5 for testing and I'll add that to my list to test

Ned Soltz

Update-- Downloaded your clip. Played in VLC without flashing. Brought into PremierePro CC2015 and did get flashing. Did some simple color correction with a Lumetri curve and still flashing. MacPro 2013, 6 core, Dual D700 (so no nVidia to blame), 32gb RAM, GTech Studio RAID. No problems, by the way, playing back at full res. That's either your machine or your storage or both.

So concerned about this strange behavior that I'm skipping my morning workout ;)

Update 2 -- Brought clip into Catalyst Prepare, applied LC709A LUT and exported as ProRes HQ in your same 1920x1080 50. Brought into PremierePro and no flickering.

It might be a better idea as the post below suggests to transcode to ProRes anyway. This will help your older machine handle the stress of long GOP XAVC. Its a pretty intense codec to decode.

All for now. I'll shoot some SLog2 and test. But I don't have any scenic waterfalls close at hand.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to check out the footage. Your tests have mirrored some more of what I've been up to. I've also transcoded it into other formats which then eliminates the problem. So this will be a fix for this batch of footage, but of course it's still a concern moving forward.

I have been speaking to Adobe support and they are unaware of any specific issues with the FS5 and certain profiles, but will now look into it based on my case. I have provided them with a few more clips of a quick test I did today. 3 clips with different profiles:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iznjyc97vyp0oxv/AAA5kWE3SUd57963dEHOOYP7a?dl=0

As a means of troubleshooting, late last night I reset the picture profile which contained this SLOG2 setup. Re-applying the same settings for this test today and the footage doesn't present the flashing as strongly. This was odd, but then I took the SLOG2 test clip and placed it into the same sequence as my footage yesterday, and again it all went crazy.

I created a short demonstration video for the adobe support team, which would help demonstrate and explain the problem. It may be useful for anyone else trying to replicate the problem using the footage I've provided: https://youtu.be/COUxUINhl-o

Clermond said:
FXI: FCPX does not read single XMF files from XAVC-L.
You either have to import from the original card or to convert single XAVC-L files to an interframe codec.
I downloaded your file and converted it with http://www.divergentmedia.com/editready EditReady to ProRes:
absolutely no issue. Smooth playback, no flicker.
Click to expand...

I can't comment on FCPX as im using premiere. I have just downloaded the trial though and am going to get around to testing the footage with it soon.
 
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Am I missing something? I've just installed the latest FCPX (10.2.2) trial, which states it has native support for XAVC-L. But importing any FS5 clips and it only recognises the audio from the clip. Please excuse my ignorance, I've never used FCPX before, am I missing something obvious?
 
mattjeh said:
Am I missing something? I've just installed the latest FCPX (10.2.2) trial, which states it has native support for XAVC-L. But importing any FS5 clips and it only recognises the audio from the clip. Please excuse my ignorance, I've never used FCPX before, am I missing something obvious?
Click to expand...

yes you are missing something ;-)

As I wrote in the posting above FCPX does NOT import single MXF XAVC-L files. You need the complete (structure of the) card. Either you import directly from the card into the library or you select in the import window on the left collumn the card [Untitled] and choose CTRL create archive. This creates a copy from your card on your hard drive and FCPX will recognize it as a camera / card from the camera.

If you have never used FCPX I'd highly recommend not to compare it to PP or FCP7 oder AVID. The workflow is absolutely different. It's a great tool. Editing speed, footage management, keywords are unbeaten imho but you have to look at it without a prejudice in regards of multiple video and audio tracks.
 
Continuing the test-- I just shot a quick clip in SLog2, XAVC 1080 59.94. Brought the MXF into PremierePro. It flashes. Applied a Lumetri correction with SLog2 LUT. Flashes. Took identical clip into Catalyst Prepare, applied LC709A LUT and exported as ProRes HQ. No flashing.

I'll try to test with SLog3 and with the Cinegammas under identical conditions but I think there is definitely something with PremierePro going on. Will also look at the footage in FCP X. I don't believe that Avid has AMA yet for XAVC L.

Ned

Update-- No issues in FCP X. Of course, when I imported into X I kept "optimize media" selected, meaning it is doing a ProRes transcode. Next step will be testing other gammas in PPro.

My suggestion to you in the interim is simply transcode your footage to ProRes. You won't have the flashing and your machine will playback smoother.
 
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Clermond said:
yes you are missing something ;-)

As I wrote in the posting above FCPX does NOT import single MXF XAVC-L files. You need the complete (structure of the) card. Either you import directly from the card into the library or you select in the import window on the left collumn the card [Untitled] and choose CTRL create archive. This creates a copy from your card on your hard drive and FCPX will recognize it as a camera / card from the camera.

If you have never used FCPX I'd highly recommend not to compare it to PP or FCP7 oder AVID. The workflow is absolutely different. It's a great tool. Editing speed, footage management, keywords are unbeaten imho but you have to look at it without a prejudice in regards of multiple video and audio tracks.
Click to expand...

Right yes, I'm sorry that didn't twig. A million and one things going around my head when trying to deal with all of this. Thanks for your input and I'll make sure I grab the full folder structure in future.

nsoltz said:
Continuing the test-- I just shot a quick clip in SLog2, XAVC 1080 59.94. Brought the MXF into PremierePro. It flashes. Applied a Lumetri correction with SLog2 LUT. Flashes. Took identical clip into Catalyst Prepare, applied LC709A LUT and exported as ProRes HQ. No flashing.

I'll try to test with SLog3 and with the Cinegammas under identical conditions but I think there is definitely something with PremierePro going on. Will also look at the footage in FCP X. I don't believe that Avid has AMA yet for XAVC L.

Ned

Update-- No issues in FCP X. Of course, when I imported into X I kept "optimize media" selected, meaning it is doing a ProRes transcode. Next step will be testing other gammas in PPro.

My suggestion to you in the interim is simply transcode your footage to ProRes. You won't have the flashing and your machine will playback smoother.
Click to expand...

Good to know (in a way) that the problem is replicated with a different camera and different system elsewhere and it's not just me. But yes, it does suggest that there is a problem with Premiere. I have supplied all this info and my test files to Adobe support, hopefully they can work out what's going on.
 
Good catch. I've also sent it down the Sony rabbit hole so they can pursue it with their Adobe contacts. I'm about to shoot a clip in SLog3 after I finish some "real work."

Update - SLog3 flashes as well. In addition the SLog3 file was scrambled in Resolve.
 
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Am following this thread as I too am afflicted with the clips flashing on the latest Premiere Pro CC 2015. I've also used PP 7 for slog2 to match the a7s that was also using PP7 for slog2. When I dropped the FS5 file to the timeline, the flashing occurs immediately on and off.

Will try Divergent's software to convert the file to ProRes and will follow up here to see if fixes it. Obviously would prefer the files to work off the bat once dropping in the MXF files but if this $50 software for now can fix it, it's at least an interim solution for those who are working with the FS5 currently until Adobe fixes the issue.

I also did test exporting the clip when the flicker occurs and then reimported that clip into the sequence and the flicker isn't present. So it seems on my end that it is a playback issue of the MXF files on Premiere as the files themselves are "clean". For now, I'm going to continue my edit despite the flicker and will export once my project is complete. If for some reason the flicker occurs during playback, I'll purchase EditReady and convert all files and replace the files on the timeline.
 
Or Catalyst to transcode.

I again reproduced the problem in PremierePro with Juan Martinez. He is sending the clips and project file to Japan. Again, no issues in FCP X, Resole, Catalyst or VLC.

Ned
 
This issue doesn't show up in the original 2015 version of premiere, so if you want your files to not flash, do not update.

I'm not sure which update started effecting the files but I ran I wasn't having any issues until I updated to the most current version of premiere and have since downgraded back to the original 2015 release and the issue went away. You can down grade by uninstalling premiere then reinstalling through creative cloud. It installs the original release and then starts downloading the updates. Turn of your internet or close the creative cloud program before it can download any updates and I'm not sure if it actually updates each individual program (mine was checked but apparently wasn't doing anything) but it might be smart to turn off auto update from the preferences.
 
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Good suggestion. For now I've just avoided the s-gamuts which seems to cause the problems (the cine gamuts seem to be fine). I still have the adobe reference which I got after the issue had been raised a few levels within their support process. I'll try to chase it up when I have some time.
 
any news on flashing FS5 footage?

any news on flashing FS5 footage?

Any news on this issue with Premiere Pro? I downloaded Matt's sample clips and don't see any flashing on my Mac and the most current version of Premiere Pro 21015 CC. I played through the footage a few times and see no flashing.

I have been considering the FS5 as my next camera, but as I edit in Premiere Pro, the flashing issue and slow performance in PP concerns me. I tried some other FS5 footage in Premiere, and playback was very sluggish, even at 1/4 program monitor resolution.
 
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Was it the waterfall clip? I've lost track of what may still be available to link to. I've not had any opportunity to chase up the case number but I wouldn't be hopeful anyway that a resolution was close. It would be strange if you're not seeing the flashing on the waterfall clip that was available, take that as a good thing I guess. I never got around to conducting a full test either but for me it was only flashing in the s.gamut options, but not the s.gamut cines. I have just avoided using those settings and I've not encountered the problem since.

Your post gave me a glimmer of hope that the issue has been resolved, but I just checked my effected footage and the flashing is still there for me.

It can't be denied that the xavc-L codec does need a lot of horsepower, especially when dealing with multiple streams with colour correction and effects. I had to upgrade to a mac pro from a decent imac to be able to run it smoothly. Just make sure you are running using cuda if you have a compatible graphics card.
 
I didn't see test waterfall clip...

I didn't see test waterfall clip...

Matt - Sorry if I got your hopes up...I downloaded 3 clips of objects on a desktop, but I didn't see a clip of a waterfall. If the waterfall clip is still available, I'd be happy to check it out. Got a link for it?

Did you upgrade to one of the new black Mac cylinders? I intend to upgrade my machine soon, with a GTX 9800Ti card, more RAM and a couple SSDs. Would recording to ProRes on an external recorder be a practical way to avoid dealing with XAVC-L?

mattjeh said:
Was it the waterfall clip? I've lost track of what may still be available to link to. I've not had any opportunity to chase up the case number but I wouldn't be hopeful anyway that a resolution was close. It would be strange if you're not seeing the flashing on the waterfall clip that was available, take that as a good thing I guess. I never got around to conducting a full test either but for me it was only flashing in the s.gamut options, but not the s.gamut cines. I have just avoided using those settings and I've not encountered the problem since.

Your post gave me a glimmer of hope that the issue has been resolved, but I just checked my effected footage and the flashing is still there for me.

It can't be denied that the xavc-L codec does need a lot of horsepower, especially when dealing with multiple streams with colour correction and effects. I had to upgrade to a mac pro from a decent imac to be able to run it smoothly. Just make sure you are running using cuda if you have a compatible graphics card.
Click to expand...
 
This is a long shot, but you wouldn't be any chance be using a Premiere filter called 'Shadow/Highlight' ?
 
Ah ok the vault boy clips. I just checked mine and the s.gamut labelled clip is not displaying the problem as it had done previously but the waterfall clip (and others) still have the flashing. I've uploaded the waterfall clip again for you to check on your end.

I opted for a refurb 2009 mac pro. I felt it gave me the best opportunity for performance and upgradability and also no need to re-mortgage my house over it. I have the same card, the 980ti on a 12 core (2x3.46 6 core) with 32GB RAM. And have no trouble playing multiple streams of the L xavc. I have no experience with external recorders so can't help with that i'm afraid.

Waterfall clip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kqgmdk3v1ebm5vc/s%20Gamut%20slog2%20flashing.MXF?dl=0
 
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