Passion: recut

I'm confused by people complaining that Passion is released at Easter....since Easter is traditionally the time Christians celebrate the crucifixion and resurrection, when else should it be released?

That's like complaining that Polar Express was exploiting Christmas by being released as a Christmas film at Christmas time.
 
At the end of the day, you can ask yourselves, what are we really upset about? Its definitely not the movie...
 
It's not the movie....It's me and my anti-Hollywood-blockbuster sentiment!!

Evil Dead II - Dead by Dawn is quite possibly the best horror movie ever to be captured on Celluloid. ~reservoir~
 
The Passion has to be the highest grossing exploitation film of all time. It is great that a well established director took some big personal/professional risks to produce a movie about something he belives in. That being said, the movie itself was terrible! Technically it was decent, but these days with the caliber of talent out there , it wasn't spectacular.
The reason I feel that this movie falls in the exploitation genre, is that it capitalises on a built in cult following for whom just seeing their characters up on screen is enough. If I had walked into that theater with no knowledge of the Christ story, I would have been baffled. "why are they torturing this guy?" It would be like walking in on a sermon in church, Which I think was Mel's intent all along
 
I loved Titanic. It is indeed a Hollywood Popcorny spectacle film; but it works. Great talent; phenomenal effects and a story we can all relate to. They don't make movies like that anymore; big budget and fantastic. I never understood people who said "Titanic" sucks. It has everything; romance for the ladies and adventure for the boys. The characters are colorful and well performed; I mean you really do hate Billy Zane and Kate's Mother. It's an important event in history and I think Cameron pulled it off with flair. Alot of people have some issues with Leo, but this kid is an actor. and Kate is just always a pleasure.

In terms of it being best picture? I can't even see The Full Monty or As Good As It Gets being nominated much less winning this award. Good Will Hunting is great film but I strain to see that being a Best Picture of the year although deserving of the Screenplay and L.A. Confidential; who I swore was gonna get Best Picture just didn't captivate like Titanic did.

What do you mean "You hate Titanic". This a Hollywood movie like the old days; not the crapfest that is typically put out by the studios today.
 
Whoa nelly....I never said *I hate Titanic*!! I still do love this film very much. I only feel that looking in retrospect it may have been a tad-bit overrated. Yes it has all the elements of classic *old days* films where there is a clear cut hero and villain. There is something for everybody...just like you said!! But based on artist merit I think that LA Confidential and Good Will Hunting were more powerful films and either could have won the Best Picture.

However, I sometimes feel that members of the Academy tend to be biased. In Titanic's case: Millions of dollars = Artistic merit. If they wanted to select a film that everybody could relate to then they succeeded. This year suprised the heck out of myself and many others. No best picture for *Aviator*. My ol' my!! Maybe the days of Titanic and LOTR epics dominating every single category are changing.

I absolutely 100% agree that most studio films now-a-days are true *crapfests*. I have only one studio that I rely on with all my heart and soul to put out *decent* flicks and that is "Lion's Gate." For my money I think they do the best job aquiring some of the best independent films and making great successes out of them. Their aquisition of Horror movies is awesome. Cabin Fever, Saw, Dead End.....on and on and on. Now that Lion's Gate and Artisan are one....I can live in DVD splendor. ~reservoir~
 
The Aviator not winning Best Picture gave me a good smack in the face. It was a shocker. Not only that, I think though no one saw that one coming. Great film by the way, Million Dollar Baby.
 
dvpixl said:
At the end of the day, you can ask yourselves, what are we really upset about? Its definitely not the movie...
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I'm upset that the movie sucked. Doesn't that count? I'm upset that I wasted money watching it. I think thats fair.

I'm not upset that people think money has nothing to do with it. That just makes me laugh.


Hooligan said:
The Passion has to be the highest grossing exploitation film of all time. It is great that a well established director took some big personal/professional risks to produce a movie about something he belives in. That being said, the movie itself was terrible! Technically it was decent, but these days with the caliber of talent out there , it wasn't spectacular.
The reason I feel that this movie falls in the exploitation genre, is that it capitalises on a built in cult following for whom just seeing their characters up on screen is enough. If I had walked into that theater with no knowledge of the Christ story, I would have been baffled. "why are they torturing this guy?" It would be like walking in on a sermon in church, Which I think was Mel's intent all along
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Exactly how I feel. Exactly. But people get upset when I say I don't like a movie that has little to no plot and is basically a 2 hour torture-fest. I guess Mel only felt like sending the 'message' to people who already got the 'message'. The rest of us are left out in the cold wondering why we were talked into wasting the money to go see it.
 
Interesting points X Man

Why did you think it sucked exactly? IT was the last 12 hours of Jesus' life (according to the book); what exactly didn't work for you? Was it the 'torture' in and of itself?

I confess, I would liked to have seen another take on this; maybe, the last 2 weeks of his life? Some of the more interesting scenes for me was when they showed him living his 'Carpernter' life and I wish they had touched more on that; I did not need to see an hour plus of torture.
 
John_Hudson said:
I did not need to see an hour plus of torture.
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I personally think it could have used some spontaneous musical numbers, but that's just me.
 
I think everyone should watch the South Park episode, "Passion of the Jew." That will clear things up :) haha

Although the episode was quite silly in some respects, they said a few things that I agree with. When the husband and wife are leaving the movies she said "yeah, it really guilt trips you into believing." I think that is true. And also in Stan's final spiel, he says something along the lines of "you shouldn't focus the movie on how he died but of the things he did."

Was there any real reason to have to see the Passion? Anybody who was brought up in a Christian home/school would have been repeatedly told, "Jesus suffered for you, he was tortured etc." Ok, we already know that he was "unrecognizable as a human" are we really so stupid (and lacking of imagination) that we need Mel Gibson, or anybody, to show us in detail. To me, that's like saying "Did you hear about Jane!? She was brutally slaughtered with a chainsaw after being tortured for 10 hrs in some guys basement. Just wait, you aren't smart enough to visually how painful that must have been, I've got the whole thing on Beta, let's watch!"

To lighten things up, last year the seniors in our christian highschool all went to see it (school-organised) and then towards the end of the year our Principal had lunch with every Year 12 student (final year) in small groups. When I had mine he asked if we all went to the Passion and what we thought of it. People were saying, "oh, it was brutal" and you know, what you'd expect. When he got to me I said "Umm, I thought it was a pretty tame." And it was hilarious his reaction "TAME!?" and then I went "Nah, I'm just kidding." ....That was a good day. :)
 
John_Hudson said:
Interesting points X Man

Why did you think it sucked exactly? IT was the last 12 hours of Jesus' life (according to the book); what exactly didn't work for you? Was it the 'torture' in and of itself?
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The actual torture didn't bother me at all, but that was about all there was to the movie. I don't know if this is a fair comparison but since Titanic was brought up...

What if Cameron took the last 15 minutes of the ship sinking (spoiler) and made it into a gruesome 3 hour spectacle. All flash, no substance. Thats what Passion felt like.

I've heard the argument that we should all already know Jesus' story. We probably all do. We also all know that the Titanic hit an iceberg and sank, but that didn't stop Cameron from telling a complete story and giving you a reason to care about the characters.

If the Passion was the last episode to a 6 part Jesus miniseries I would probably love it and buy the box set. But on its own it completely fails as a movie (cinematography was great though).

Top it off with average acting and a poor screenplay (credited to Mel Gibson and Benedict Fitzgerald, not the bible). Just a stinker.
 
Yeah, I'm not saying that the no one should make movies that tell a "true" story, I was just saying that I don't think a movie had to be made about that specific part of the story. What you said about if Cameron just made a 3 hr movie about the last 15 mintutes is what I was trying to get at. We don't need Cameron to show us the graphic details of the people on board's death (and only that), nor do we need Gibson showing graphic details of Jesus' death because we already know it was gruesome, we're not stupid.
 
ExFilms said:
The actual torture didn't bother me at all, but that was about all there was to the movie. I don't know if this is a fair comparison but since Titanic was brought up...

What if Cameron took the last 15 minutes of the ship sinking (spoiler) and made it into a gruesome 3 hour spectacle. All flash, no substance. Thats what Passion felt like.

I've heard the argument that we should all already know Jesus' story. We probably all do. We also all know that the Titanic hit an iceberg and sank, but that didn't stop Cameron from telling a complete story and giving you a reason to care about the characters.

If the Passion was the last episode to a 6 part Jesus miniseries I would probably love it and buy the box set. But on its own it completely fails as a movie (cinematography was great though).

Top it off with average acting and a poor screenplay (credited to Mel Gibson and Benedict Fitzgerald, not the bible). Just a stinker.
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Im digging it and I think you are right; wouldnt it have been more interesting to tell this story from the perspective of 'bystanders?' or even possibly from a multitude of dirrent characters such as th apostles or mary or the romans?

I see your point and must agree.
 
I guess being killed for all the sins of the world wouldn't be so pretty. How can you even compare "Titanic " to the "Passion", they aren't in the same league. The last 12 hours is the biggest part to whole story, the reason (if you believe). Its not just watching a film, its like an experience. I guess its simple, you either get it or you dont. The film was perfect the way it was. It had everything needed to tell the story. Many people have been touched, changed in more ways than most films. I'm sorry if you got popcorn and candy, I'm sure it wasn't easy to enjoy.
 
I'm digging that side MD.

I think what we are getting at (me anyway) is that it is still a movie; cinema; a motion picture. It could have been better.

Did I like it? Yes, I did; the score, the photography, the talent and all of that wrapped up in the most important story of mankind (I said story as in whether you believe it or not; I'm still searching.)

Mentioning it in the same breadth as Titanic is not at all an insult to anuyones beliefs; we're talking about a film in the film sidcsiion thread; of course some people get it and some people do not but its not really fair to throw that assessment on there when it comes to this subject; surely the Jews dont get it, the muslims dont get it and who knows the countless religions that it is not representative of. The Christians get it undoubtedly.

I liked it and it was a powerful film for me; but it could have more substance (not substance in the manner of taking away from the gist of the film subject; let's not get confused). Substance as a movie, as a story, as an event.

Take any film and any event in history and its pretty stale without the story or the characters to carry it.

And to be clear again; I loved it, respect it and see exactly what the naysayers are saying in terms of it being a better film. To be fair; to say one 'either gets it or does not' is merely brushing aside the beliefs and opinions of others.
 
MDfilms said:
How can you even compare "Titanic " to the "Passion", they aren't in the same league.
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They're both Hollywood Blockbusters with awesome special effects.

Their stories are based on real events.

They're both period pieces.

They were both considered risky films.

They both broke box office records.

In Titanic the hands seen sketching Rose are director James Cameron's and in Passion it's Mel Gibson's hands that nail Christ to the cross during the Crucifixion scene.

The last lines spoken by Old Rose in Titanic, "He exists now only in my memory," are also the last lines in the film Mad Max 2 starring Mel Gibson.

Ok...the last two were from IMDB trivia. But you get the idea right? They are in very much the same league.
 
ExFilms said:
The last lines spoken by Old Rose in Titanic, "He exists now only in my memory," are also the last lines in the film Mad Max 2 starring Mel Gibson.
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OMG thats cool. :beer:
 
My bad....I actually was never meaning to start a comparison between *Titanic* and *Passion*. I guess what I meant to say was that I felt they were both mass marketed very similarly. It's sort of the same but different. I didn't see any church groups going to screenings of *Titanic* and I didn't see any 14 year old girls going "OMG....I've seen Passion 12 times now." So that part is definately different. I guess I was just saying they were both big Blockbusters, like what Exfilms said. *Titanic* with its 200 million dollar budget was obviously made to be a Blockbuster or if it had failed....*Waterworld 2*. *Passion* seemed to have its roots more like indie films being financed solely or with a small group of people. I don't think it was a coincidence that it became a Blockbuster due to it being a film many could relate to and understand. Like Kungfu masta' once say: "Same, but different" ~reservoir~
 
I guess its simple, you either get it or you dont. The film was perfect the way it was. It had everything needed to tell the story. Many people have been touched, changed in more ways than most films. I'm sorry if you got popcorn and candy, I'm sure it wasn't easy to enjoy.
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The Passion as a film played in peoples minds before they even sat down in their seats. I think you have a good point when you say you either get it or you don't. The film plays to a significant portion of America's belief system. But if you're not a Christian and don't really know the christ story and sit down to watch the film, you don't get a sense of what Jesus stood for, you see a guy getting the crap beaten out of him for two hours. At least that's what my girlfriend's dad told me, as well as a handful of other people who went into the film without bringing in religious expectations.

If you can separate personal identity and look at it purely from a storytelling standpoint, the storytelling flaws should be more obvious.

I haven't seen it yet. I refused to go to it amid all the hype. Now that the hype has more or less died down I plan on checking it out.

No film is perfect, but the Passion was certainly marketed brilliantly. It was marketed in such a way that if you were Christian and you didn't see it it meant that you agreed with all the critics and detractors of the film who called it exploitative. And if it's labelled as exploitative then somehow that reflects on the material. Mel knew what he was doing, and he did a great job of filling those seats. No doubt.
 
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