Panning 'mud', reasons why and firmware update

OK, so I've used the cam for a few hours now, and played the footage back on a big SD TV, and the mud is there, but most of the time it doesn't seem bad at all. I can definitely MAKE it happen easy enough, but it also seems relatively easy to avoid, and I was shooting outside with lots of leaves, wind and grass.

There was a couple times, however, that the mud just popped in, as in, BAM, a little splash of mud, then clean, almost like I surprised the processor.

I thought it was worse if I shot in Smooth mode with saturation turned down. If I was in Vivid, or Dynamic, with the Sat UP, it seemed better. I found similar 'high saturation' settings on the D90 to be better throughout the overall workflow, and it's easy to desaturate in post if that's your flavor, but if I shot too desaturated I always found myself pushing it in post and it became a soupy mess.
 
Interesting - this is opposite of my findings - initial thought they may be. I shot with smooth mode with contrast and sharpness turned all the way down and that seemed to help. Though that may not be what was solving the mud for me - may have been the accidental hack to 30p in 60p because I shot at 1/50th shutter by mistake.
 
Tim Joy said:
...but if I shot too desaturated I always found myself pushing it in post and it became a soupy mess.
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I know what you mean. This is how I shoot now with my HV20. Desaturation in post is much much easier than trying to crank it.
 
When I was shooting with my DVX I cranked the saturation a bit for color grading / to desat in post, but with the HVX/HPX'es I found the most neutral settings the best for grading - of course that all has a lot to do with the relative colorpsace of the afformentioned cams.

Sounds like with AVCHD a bit of saturation may cram some more color info in there to play with (even if it's faux color) like it did with my DVX.

My goal with the GH1 in picking Smooth Mode and desating in cam was not for post workflow, but and attempt to make it as easy on the codec as possible.
 
Few weeks ago I shot about 40 minutes of hand held footage and accidentally I was in 1080P mode for first 25 minutes or so while I thought I was shooting 720P. Later when I found out about it I changed to 720P mode and thought that lot's of footage in 1080P might be ruined due to what I've read on the forums and never before I've shot 1080P.

To my surprise when I edited the footage I did not see any mud at all(maybe once when I left the camera rolling accidentally and was walking fast while pointing it here and there). I mostly shot at the shutter speed of 1/50.

If you use the camera like it should be used, you should not be worried much about the mud.
 
If you use the camera like it should be used, you should not be worried much about the mud.
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Exactly. Only those than don't use it properly constantly complain about the "mud problem". I keep saying it, if you know how to shoot well you will have absolutely no problem with 1080p.
 
John Caballero said:
Exactly. Only those than don't use it properly constantly complain about the "mud problem". I keep saying it, if you know how to shoot well you will have absolutely no problem with 1080p.
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Simply not true John.

It does bite the pros, it does bite good shots. It doesn't have an inbuilt sensor for how nice your shots look. I find these kind of comments idiotic. It's a valid problem, like blue-shift, like compression, like moire, like aliasing, like banding, like jello, like all the other little things we have to put up with on this 1st generation of camera. There is no harm in mulling such things over until the big man in the sky fixes them for the next gen but I do agree with you on one point and one point only, that it's important to work around these the best you can and to only shoot nice looking footage with all the massive benefits an interchangeable lens camera like the GH1 gives you. But often that will not be enough to avoid the odd hiccup.
 
commanderspike said:
Simply not true John.

It does bite the pros, it does bite good shots. It doesn't have an inbuilt sensor for how nice your shots look. I find these kind of comments idiotic. It's a valid problem, like blue-shift, like compression, like moire, like aliasing, like banding, like jello, like all the other little things we have to put up with on this 1st generation of camera. There is no harm in mulling such things over until the big man in the sky fixes them for the next gen but I do agree with you on one point and one point only, that it's important to work around these the best you can and to only shoot nice looking footage with all the massive benefits an interchangeable lens camera like the GH1 gives you. But often that will not be enough to avoid the odd hiccup.
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i didn't see him mention pro's in his comment. but in actuality, you can use a red one improper and yield bad results.
 
commanderspike said:
Simply not true John.

It does bite the pros, it does bite good shots. It doesn't have an inbuilt sensor for how nice your shots look. I find these kind of comments idiotic. It's a valid problem, like blue-shift, like compression, like moire, like aliasing, like banding, like jello, like all the other little things we have to put up with on this 1st generation of camera. There is no harm in mulling such things over until the big man in the sky fixes them for the next gen but I do agree with you on one point and one point only, that it's important to work around these the best you can and to only shoot nice looking footage with all the massive benefits an interchangeable lens camera like the GH1 gives you. But often that will not be enough to avoid the odd hiccup.
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Exactly for what I have highlighted in your post - first generation of camera we have to put up with.

Tell me another 1500$ camera that does the same.

The most prominent issue I agree with is the BLUE SHIFT.

The MUD is in the hands of person who uses it as it is him who has to decide how fast he has to pan.

Anyway, when you pan fast how much details do you expect your audience to see in the 2 second pan in a 10 minute scene?
 
John Caballero said:
that we have to give Panasonic thanks for bringing out. A camera that if used correctly, despite its limitations, will yield very beautiful results at 1080p.
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Actually I would like to thank RED.

Without them it would not be possible as these companies would've kept giving us what they have been giving us in the last few years - DVX 100 and XL with very little improvements for the same price.
 
I think that video was a good example of mud that I didn't notice until I was looking for it because the thing was well shot and composed and I was focusing on the scene elements that mattered (the hotness). I liked that video...it worked fine despite mud because it was a GOOD VIDEO.
 
BhambuNath said:
Exactly for what I have highlighted in your post - first generation of camera we have to put up with.

Tell me another 1500$ camera that does the same.

The most prominent issue I agree with is the BLUE SHIFT.

The MUD is in the hands of person who uses it as it is him who has to decide how fast he has to pan.

Anyway, when you pan fast how much details do you expect your audience to see in the 2 second pan in a 10 minute scene?
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Okay agree but would like to clarify one point of yours. The mud does occur on pans of course but it also occurs on any camera movement where there is enough detail to cause mud. You don't have to move the camera jerkily or fast to invoke it on certain scenes. You can have your camera floating slowly on a steadicam and it may still occur if you have a lot of find detail and shoot with a deep DOF in bright light with the kit lens.

Deep DOF = more detail, through a greater depth of field.
Kit lens = more processing required for lens distortion & CA adjustment, less horse power left over to do the codec work so bitrate is adjusted accordingly to avoid dropped frames (thanks to Philip for that theory).
Bright light = you may use a higher frame rate and a deeper DOF unless you use a ND filter / vari ND. A higher frame rate improves AF tracking but encourages mud to occur because there is less detail smudged out by motion blur.

That's the All You Want To Know About: Mud book done. Will have it on sale by Christmas :happy:
 
John Caballero said:
Especially when whipping the GH1 uncontrollably y in the bushes.
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View the 'crap' video here :) And tell me what part of the video John is referring to where I whip pan uncontrollably.



The GH1 is capable of great picture quality, a few annoyances aside.

The camera was on this:

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/hague_mini_motion_cam_steadicam_type_camcorder_stabilizer.htm

It floats great on that thing, the only problem is when wind blows it sideways. The camera rotates.

Might get a bigger version of that steadicam for the 5D as that's a LOT heavier and needs to be balanced quite differently.

If you put the GH1 on a steadicam like that be careful not to rotate the zoom barrel of the kit lens whilst the camera is fixed to the fixing plate as it stretches the rubber of the lens grip, which then comes loose.
 
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