Panning 'mud', reasons why and firmware update

commanderspike said:
Was shooting this weekend and may have come across a fix for the mud issue, but until I get the footage on the Mac I am keeping my hopes down.

When bad mud occurs it's obvious just from watching the playback mode on camera.

But I found that shooting full HD with +2 sharpness and noise reduction OFF seemed to cure the issue or at least make it much less noticeable.

Also was impressed with 720p's total lack of jello.

Will report back later once I have access to my main computer again...
Click to expand...


Okay I am convinced I am in a time vortex now. I believe Kholi already pointed out the +2 sharpness and noise reduction off or at least somebody did if it was not him. I also remember 720p being known for jelloless goodness. I think it is great you are finding these work-a-rounds, I'm just confused as to why there is so much circular discussions in this forum? So after long careful thought and some calculations I have discovered I am absolutely caught in a time vortex. With that said I must tell myself yet again what the winning powerball numbers were for 06/06/09 - 10,18,23,30,45,BP2 I'm bound to read this on my trip in time.
 
There isn't a FAQ people can read, and with so many postings- it's hard to keep track. I have trouble myself, and am slowly collecting tips as I explore and re-explore the threads in this section so I don't ask a question that's already answered.
 
I agree... has anyone jotted down all the facts? I would like a cliff note summary.......
I think I may order one tomorrow......
 
I guess as soon as a few more people start testing with recommendations as this one and get positive results a list should be compiled in a sticky so everybody can share the info.
 
I have this so far, it's a copy and paste compilation I saved at google docs so I can't credit the poster- You know who you are, thanks for the contribution! :)

Granted, it's not exactly a FAQ but a dvxuser preference of shooting sheet, which is what I find good to know about. I wrote it down here instead of creating a new thread hoping someone would take up the sheet and maintain the thread as I won't be able to update it as frequently. (I'll be serving national service in a few days for the next two years so I'll only really be free during the weekends.)

GH1

Shooting Modes (PAL)

AVCHD 1080p 25 (Best used on low to no motion shots)
AVCHD 720p 50 (Anything under the sun, really.)
AVCHD 720p 30

MJPEG 720p 30

... add details on bit-rate.

Shooting 1080p 25 (PAL)

Recommended to shoot with +2 sharpness and noise reduction OFF. (Reduced Mud effect)


Shooting in 720p 50 (PAL)

Use 1/50 shutter to get down to as filmic a look as possible when converted to 25p. (1/60 for NTSC models)


Lens & Compatibility

Most features are shoot around f4 with 5.6 for wider shoots and 2.8 for close-ups. 2.0 is used mostly when running out of daylight on location or for that super-dramatic close-up.

Recommended Lenses
-Tokina AT-X 116 PRO DX (11-16mm F2.8)
-


Accessories

-KFleung Steadicam
DIY steadicam which would probably work great with GH1's continuous auto-focus
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=14301&page=3

-Microphones?

-Tripods?
 
Very good. The Mods should create a sticky maybe based on this and start adding as we get new info. Thanks raymondluo. I am sure Kholi will help shape it up lots more.
 
Did some testing with the fabled NR OFF / Sharpness + 2 setting today and this is what I found:

bad2.jpg


Sorry for getting everybody's hopes up.

It doesn't look like there is going to be a work around, so I'll just be using 720p motion JPEG until Panasonic fix it.

Not a happy situation but hey...

Oh and I have high detail slow pans on a tripod that are also affected by this bug. It's not just restricted to shoddy test shots.

Will upload to Vimeo after work.
 
Did some testing with the fabled NR OFF / Sharpness + 2 setting today and this is what I found:
Click to expand...
So what were your iso and shutter settings here? You've already shown earlier that by choosing an
ISO around 320 the mud seems reduced, seemingly covered by motion blur. So how come it's back again in this shot? Not knocking what your doing, just trying to understand your methodology.
 
Thank you commanderspike, that's what i've been waiting to see for a couple weeks now (or however long ago that thread was now), and I'm glad I just went with my hunch and didn't pre-order. Hopefully this will get resolved soon with just a firmware update. IF this does get fixed, it will most certainly be the best VDSLR!
 
Hi, just wondering commanderspike, have you noticed this mud when you dont pan and are on a tripod but there is movement in the scene of someone moving across the frame. Are they muddy?

cheers
 
That was shot at 1080 24p, the mud does not occur as often in 720p AVCHD and not at all in MJPEG mode.

The ISO setting was 320. Earlier tests at 320 did now show any mud, but you cannot get consistent results even at ISO 320. Sometimes it shows mud, sometimes not.

Mud occurs on pans only. Doesn't seem to occur on static shots, even ones with a lot of movement in the scene. It's only when the whole camera is moving.

We've gone over this bug to death now, it's time Panasonic acknowledged the problem and fixed it.

A great camera gone begging.

At least 720p MJPEG is pretty spectacular. 1080P is more of an occasionally relevant bonus than a usable feature.
 
Can anyone comment/compare the frequency of mud in 720p to the codec breakup in HDV, under high detail strain etc..? I just want a gauge of how bad it is.
 
Okay, here is an example of 'mud' affecting some footage I shot at the weekend.

I have just uploaded it to Vimeo here: http://www.vimeo.com/5058633

It occurred in this case when I moved my tripod too fast accidentally, but you sure as hell don't get this kind of break up on any other camera I know of.

This is why I'm annoyed at Panasonic - the camera is so damned good in so many respects, only to be hobbled by a major bug which crops up many many times.

Fast frame rate, full HD, brightly lit detailed scene with a lot of FINE detail - don't even go there.

Use 720p MJPEG for that.

That's the lesson over... rant is sure to continue. :)
 
Isaac_Brody said:
I'll compile a basic faq this week.
Click to expand...
Would be AMAZING to have this available on the site. I wish we could get a FAQ similar to Kholi's amazing D90 FAQ here at DVXUser. It's great to have all the facts, both good and bad, all in one place. It really helps in making a buying decision.

Kholi's original D90 FAQ is what convinced me to pass on the D90 and wait for something better.
 
commanderspike said:
Okay, here is an example of 'mud' affecting some footage I shot at the weekend.

I have just uploaded it to Vimeo here: http://www.vimeo.com/5058633

It occurred in this case when I moved my tripod too fast accidentally, but you sure as hell don't get this kind of break up on any other camera I know of.
Click to expand...

Finally, an actually clip...

And that's what this 659 post thread is all about? First of all, there's no pulldown removal and that's the most obvious thing about the clip. Second, yeah, it's an accident jerk. That's footage that no sane person would ever use.

I've always suspected from the stills and from the footage I've scene that this is much ado about nothing and clearly it is.

I'm not even sure this qualifies as major bug if that's what you are complaining about. Compared to D90 jello, 5D Mkii aliasing, EX 1/3 IR Red filteriing issues, the HD100 Split-frame issue etc., this is pretty minor because I've yet to see it occur and be a visual problem in any footage that would be used.
 
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