Panavision comes out swinging.

Funny I thinking about this the other day after reading a thread here, it's the inevitable. But to start calling it an Alexa killer is rediculous. We don't know nearly enough about it nor have we seen footage. Everythings a "killer" these days, so tired of it.
 
maranfilms said:
Funny I thinking about this the other day after reading a thread here, it's the inevitable. But to start calling it an Alexa killer is rediculous. We don't know nearly enough about it nor have we seen footage. Everythings a "killer" these days, so tired of it.
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You can't buy a Panavision camera, nor use PL mount lenses, so it really is just another class of it's own, in some way. Other rental houses, owner/operators, and even new people looking to buy or invest in a camera won't even consider it, so it's not really a killer of anything. Sure it can steal some big jobs, but chances are those jobs were going to be renting from panavision to begin with, like a 65mm camera like inception, or maybe just for an epic or alexa, so it's no biggie. It looks to be the digital equivalent of a 65mm camera. I think they are gunning to establish themselves in a niche market than try to dominate with an entry into the slug-fest we know as the camera race. They already Panavize Epics and Alexa's and rent plenty of them. I think it's a good move on their part. This does not look like they are designing the next everything camera. It looks like the camera that might attract people who are trying to push studio films into IMAX releases and etc.
 
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There are great many DP's who traditionally preferred Panavision for the quality and range of optics, the reliability of the cameras and top-notch support (in LA, there were vans that drove around the city so if you had an issue, a replacement might be mere minutes away)! It's easy to forget that they were at the forefront of digital cinema with their F900 systems and later the Genesis, while Arri was dragging its heels. I welcome them back to the game. Looking forward to seeing the images out of this camera. After this much development, I'm guessing they will be impressive.

By the way, for those in the LA area it's worth a visit to their new facility in Woodland Hills. The prep floor may not be as impressively sized as it used to be but the highlight is to visit their complimentary coffee bar for a "Panacino" and marvel at the display lineup of legacy cameras from the venerable PSR to the very first Panaflex (used by Spielberg on "Sugarland Express") up through the last production film camera, the XL2. On the other side of the room is the F900 and Genesis, and most fascinatingly the 80's era Panacam, the first serious marriage of film optics with a video camera (with reflex viewing)!
 
CharlesPapert said:
There are great many DP's who traditionally preferred Panavision for the quality and range of optics, the reliability of the cameras and top-notch support (in LA, there were vans that drove around the city so if you had an issue, a replacement might be mere minutes away)! It's easy to forget that they were at the forefront of digital cinema with their F900 systems and later the Genesis, while Arri was dragging its heels. I welcome them back to the game. Looking forward to seeing the images out of this camera. After this much development, I'm guessing they will be impressive.

By the way, for those in the LA area it's worth a visit to their new facility in Woodland Hills. The prep floor may not be as impressively sized as it used to be but the highlight is to visit their complimentary coffee bar for a "Panacino" and marvel at the display lineup of legacy cameras from the venerable PSR to the very first Panaflex (used by Spielberg on "Sugarland Express") up through the last production film camera, the XL2. On the other side of the room is the F900 and Genesis, and most fascinatingly the 80's era Panacam, the first serious marriage of film optics with a video camera (with reflex viewing)!
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Panavision rental was always a sign of a flush budget. PL was PL, pretty much anything that you could hang on a 35 Panaflex would work on an Arri, I always thought what set the Panavision cameras apart were the viewfinders and sound (or lack of sound), that tally light was absolutely necessary and still I can remember several incidents of camera running after the cut (and what a **** fit the DP would have if that happened). But in terms of 65mm Panavision definitely has the glass in hand. I'm dieing to see what footage from this camera looks like.
 
LyleGorch said:
PL was PL, pretty much anything that you could hang on a 35 Panaflex would work on an Arri
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Hmmm? PV mount and PL mount is specifically non-interchangeable. The only Arris that would take Panavision optics were Panavised Arris, which you couldn't get at rental houses other than Panavision (I had an SL Cine Arri IIC conversion with both mounts). The viewfinders were pretty good, depending on which vintage--we weren't crazy about the Millenium but the XL2 improved things. And yes they were quiet. And AC's always loved the complete system of accessories that fit together like butter. But it was the lenses that were a major draw for most DP's (particularly the Primos), they have long been a leader in that arena and it will be exciting to see what the new ones are like.

Also--not sure which tally light you are referring to, on what body?
 
I was wondering about something. I have a friend of mine when I was coming up that was an AC here in the Detroit area. He made the trip west and got steady work as an AC out in LA. He came back after a couple of years for the holidays and a bunch of us were hanging and partying. Another local Detroit AC asked our buddy about working with Panavision cameras and he related that compared to Arris, which were the staple here, the Panavision camera's "Ergonomics" sucked. This would have been about 1997ish. Since I have never worked with a Panavison camera, I was wondering if my ol' bud was full of sh*t?
 
Here's one thing I'll say about the classic AC mentality (and this is said with love and affection, because I have worked alongside them for decades); they dislike what they don't know. Creatures of habit. Every new camera that emerged in the film days was treated suspiciously. These days--well, it's been a rough few years with HD settling in, but winners are emerging at last.

The Panavision system did most things extremely well. Every piece of gear "talked" to the other pieces, the fit and finish was immaculate and reconfigurations were fast. Most AC's I knew preferred work with Panavision. With Arri, each rental house had a slightly different setup, the brackets might be from different 3rd parties or custom to the rental house. The video taps were always being revised and updated and often this would render brackets obsolete and you had to start over. Panavision's taps, in comparison, were largely interior on the bodies. There were a few things that Panavision "fixed" that weren't broken--their zoom guns and sticks were never as good as the Microforce--but then they had things like the ARF, an angled filter tray that neatly killed reflections, that I miss to this day.

I would guess that your AC pal was used to the configurations of the Arris from the presumably one or maybe two rental houses that he always worked with in Detroit and having to learn a completely new way of doing things, from threading to a different feel of follow focus, was always going to be second best for him.

As far as operating ergonomics--I spent 12 or 13 years straight with Panaflexes and had few complaints. Pretty darn heavy handheld, but so were the Arris at that time (535B). Arri really stepped it up with the acquisition of Moviecam and the introduction of the ST and LT bodies, but the Panavision XL2 was nice also. However heavy any of those seemed, it all went to hell with the Genesis and successors with the SR decks and virtually endless roll times.
 
CharlesPapert said:
.

Hmmm? PV mount and PL mount is specifically non-interchangeable. The only Arris that would take Panavision optics were Panavised Arris, which you couldn't get at rental houses other than Panavision (I had an SL Cine Arri IIC conversion with both mounts). The viewfinders were pretty good, depending on which vintage--we weren't crazy about the Millenium but the XL2 improved things. And yes they were quiet. And AC's always loved the complete system of accessories that fit together like butter. But it was the lenses that were a major draw for most DP's (particularly the Primos), they have long been a leader in that arena and it will be exciting to see what the new ones are like.

Also--not sure which tally light you are referring to, on what body?
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Hah! PV mount, right you are, a good indication of how long its been since I've touched a 35 camera. We almost never used primes, it was almost always cooke zooms (most often the 25-250 if I recall). This was late 80s to early 90s so I'm thinking Panaflex gold or goldII or maybe platinum, actually used an elaine once, Arri BLs were noisy back then. I remember the announcements when the Primo's were introduced but just about everybody at that point in our market was shifting to s16 sr3s.
 
Platinum definitely had the viewing advantage over the Golds, which kinda fit their name (the viewfinders were a bit yellow!). But all were solid cameras. Elaine--yup, I did a few series on those (early seasons of Buffy, and a great short-lived one, Action). 16mm camera that weighed like a 35mm camera!

I can't remember now the pre-Primo Panavision zooms--definitely a few Panavised Cookes--did a feature with those as late as 2007, for the soft vintage look.

One thing that is interesting about the new Panavision building--a lot tighter security than the old one. Don't know if its because of stolen gear or the new camera under wraps, but you need swipe cards outside of the prep floor.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Here's one thing I'll say about the classic AC mentality (and this is said with love and affection, because I have worked alongside them for decades); they dislike what they don't know. Creatures of habit. Every new camera that emerged in the film days was treated suspiciously. These days--well, it's been a rough few years with HD settling in, but winners are emerging at last.

The Panavision system did most things extremely well. Every piece of gear "talked" to the other pieces, the fit and finish was immaculate and reconfigurations were fast. Most AC's I knew preferred work with Panavision. With Arri, each rental house had a slightly different setup, the brackets might be from different 3rd parties or custom to the rental house. The video taps were always being revised and updated and often this would render brackets obsolete and you had to start over. Panavision's taps, in comparison, were largely interior on the bodies. There were a few things that Panavision "fixed" that weren't broken--their zoom guns and sticks were never as good as the Microforce--but then they had things like the ARF, an angled filter tray that neatly killed reflections, that I miss to this day.

I would guess that your AC pal was used to the configurations of the Arris from the presumably one or maybe two rental houses that he always worked with in Detroit and having to learn a completely new way of doing things, from threading to a different feel of follow focus, was always going to be second best for him.

As far as operating ergonomics--I spent 12 or 13 years straight with Panaflexes and had few complaints. Pretty darn heavy handheld, but so were the Arris at that time (535B). Arri really stepped it up with the acquisition of Moviecam and the introduction of the ST and LT bodies, but the Panavision XL2 was nice also. However heavy any of those seemed, it all went to hell with the Genesis and successors with the SR decks and virtually endless roll times.
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Yeah, my old buddy pretty much worked out of one camera shop, I always figured it was something like that. Thanks.
 
What is the big deal here with this one, I guess I'm not getting it. Vision Research has had a digital 65mm sensor Phantom D-film camera out for years now. Panavision is playing catch-up to that one, is all.

http://www.visionresearch.com/Products/High-Speed-Cameras/Phantom-65/

Phantom_65-a.jpg
 
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