Panasonic would have had a winner if they had made an AF100 with the GH2 sensor.

[hscully]

I got this in my Vimeo in box this morning.

My wish is that Panasonic would do the testing you speak of Barry; that they assemble these matrices of results for all of the variables.

Further that they be up front with the strengths and weaknesses of a given camera before we buy it. That they be honest and show data about things which always seem to concern people. I feel that would be a big asset to this community and help people have faith in Panasonic which in turn would help this company that at the moment doesn't seem to be doing all that well.

Yikes the Jinn (sorry, Jan) granted you three wishes and you went for testing, honesty and customer service? How about 10 bit 4:2:2 and 1:1 focus? Ok, one more... AVC Intra!

 

[Steve Kahn]

okay... all of the above. :thumbsup:

 

[Erik Naso]

I find this tread somewhat amusing. first of all. Whatever Panasonic will have will be better than a GH2 sensor in an AF-100. This is old tech now people. Its fun to talk and argue about but really? Remember the AF-100 was first to offer a large sensor camera that had what we wanted so we didn’t have to shoot with a DSLR . The other guys had the AF-100 to follow up with and the FS100 wasn't enough for an AF-100 owner to switch. At least not for me. Jan has called out for owners and users on Vimeo to give top three wishes for the next camera. That is huge! It’s now time to look to the future and give good advice for the next great large sensor camera from Panasonic.

 

[mcbob]

I answered with what I always answer: a S35 sensor with selectable crop for 4/3", S16, 2/3", and 1/2", m43 mount, with ISO on an easily accessible wheel, a built-in variable ND, a switchable OLPF, 1:1 focus assist while recording, recording AVC Intra and Ultra to standard or micro P2, switchable 16bit Auto gain control on audio with optional 24bit internal audio, with more GH-like highlight handling.

Simple enough.

 

[Mike Harvey]

I answered with what I always answer: a S35 sensor with ... m43 mount...

That's not even physically possible, is it? If they came out with an S35 sensor, it's going to be too big for m4/3 glass, right? So they're going to have to either license an existing mount from a competitor, or develop a whole new mount... which means developing a whole new line of lenses. I'm not sure how that's going to be economically feasible for how small a market this camera would be catering to. I mean, it makes sense for S35 or larger for the new 4k Varicam they announced (assuming it's S35 or larger) because at that price bracket you're dealing with folks using PL glass. But in the ~$5k market? I'm not sure how that make's financial sense for them.

 

[dwiener]

That's not even physically possible, is it? If they came out with an S35 sensor, it's going to be too big for m4/3 glass, right? So they're going to have to either license an existing mount from a competitor, or develop a whole new mount... which means developing a whole new line of lenses. I'm not sure how that's going to be economically feasible for how small a market this camera would be catering to. I mean, it makes sense for S35 or larger for the new 4k Varicam they announced (assuming it's S35 or larger) because at that price bracket you're dealing with folks using PL glass. But in the ~$5k market? I'm not sure how that make's financial sense for them.

Since they share the 4/3 and m4/3 with Olympus maybe they could license their om mount for a super 35 sensor. Besides their being lots of lenses for the olympus system I'm sure adapters could easily be made for other lenses. Sony's DSLR's and lenses came from their acquisition of Minolta's camera line.

 

[jmarkham]

I find this tread somewhat amusing. first of all. Whatever Panasonic will have will be better than a GH2 sensor in an AF-100. This is old tech now people. Its fun to talk and argue about but really? Remember the AF-100 was first to offer a large sensor camera that had what we wanted so we didn’t have to shoot with a DSLR . The other guys had the AF-100 to follow up with and the FS100 wasn't enough for an AF-100 owner to switch. At least not for me. Jan has called out for owners and users on Vimeo to give top three wishes for the next camera. That is huge! It’s now time to look to the future and give good advice for the next great large sensor camera from Panasonic.

Exactly Erik. Panasonic was certainly a vanguard with the AF100. Maybe they can learn from the current
product offering and leap-frog yet again. They have a great track-record and I think it's mostly a matter
of focus for them. The fact that Jan is asking for wishes for a next camera is a good sign that they've decided
a follow-on to the AF100 is important to them.

I agree the "would have had a winner" discussion is somewhat moot. They did and do have a winner .. only
the field of choice has broadened significantly. For the price-point, it's still quite viable.

It will be interesting to see how Pansonic addresses the market need. I think they got the message at NAB.

jeff

 

[Mike Harvey]

Since they share the 4/3 and m4/3 with Olympus maybe they could license their om mount for a super 35 sensor. Besides their being lots of lenses for the olympus system I'm sure adapters could easily be made for other lenses. Sony's DSLR's and lenses came from their acquisition of Minolta's camera line.

I hadn't even thought about the OM stuff. My question, though, is is there any OM glass available that can talk the camera? I know the new Olympus OM-D line is m4/3, and I was under the impression the old OM line was discontinued a decade ago. So anything like the Lumix 14-140 lens or the 12-35 X lens would have to be built from scratch, and probably be a bit more expensive since it's going to be bigger glass.

 

[dcloud]

oversized sensor imo would be close enough to 35mm academy

 

[hscully]

I hope they leave it m4/3, since there is no penalty in using larger format glass, which I will continue to invest in except wide lenses. I think it's close enough to s35 to let me do what I need to do. With that in mind what is the advantage of s35? Matching FOV of other cameras in a multi-cam shoot? What else?

With the X lenses, I think they're committed to this mount. I asked for better output (10bit 4:2:2, AVC Intra/Ultra), and 1:1 focus assist.

 

[EndCredits]

I wonder if you could have a drop in olpf like the nd filter wheel but obviously more complex? That way you could have the best of both worlds, high detail or smooth moire free images. Just a random thought.

 

[mcbob]

That's exactly what I was thinking... and replace the 4-stop, discreet ND wheel with an infinitely variable ND. It could essentially make all still lenses "declicked," just choose your focal depth and go.

 

[joesiv]

That's exactly what I was thinking... and replace the 4-stop, discreet ND wheel with an infinitely variable ND. It could essentially make all still lenses "declicked," just choose your focal depth and go.

Except that you'd lose light regardless of your setting, polarizing filters lose 2 stops of light regardless of setting, I'm not sure about the variable ND's since they actually stack 2 polarizing filters on top of each other... Being able to flip the ND completely off would benefit low light shooting.

A flip in/out OLPF sounds neat, though I'm not sure how it'd work in practice, typically OLPF's are very very close (on top) of the sensor, though the aftermarket ones cropping up are placed farther infront of the sensor, so maybe it's feasible. though I'm sure people would complain that there is too much aliasing/moire without, and too soft with, so maybe they should that variable as well? (feature creep).

10bit 4-2-2 sounds like one huge addition, even if it was just done externally. Custom curves/color profiles sounds good too. Stronger lens' mount (greater than 3lb) would be nice.

 

[Gary Huff]

Since Panasonic announced the SD-sized MicroP2, I would be very surprised if the next model of the AF-100 didn't utilize it in some way.

 

[dcloud]

"Is the AF100 a viable alternative? Certainly it can make gorgeous images, when wielded by a skilled DP. But the Panasonic has
harsher highlight handling, noticeably lower resolution, and more luma aliasing, and it can’t hold a candle (pun intended) to the FS100’s low-noise, low-light prowess: it maxes out at ISO 3200, and a heavily-processed ISO 3200 it is, too. I also find the Sony to be more operator-friendly when on a tripod, though handheld, it’s a wash (the Panasonic’s handycam design is no advantage with cameras this fat and laterally unbalanced). For me, the NEX-FS100’s image quality is “better enough” to make it worth the additional cost (and I say that as someone whose sole owned HD camera at the moment is a Panasonic DMC-GH2)."

All of this is in his LONG 4 page review here:

http://provideocoalition.com/index....w_sony_nex-fs100_super35_lss_avchd_camcorder/

Again, as I said, your opinion may differ, but I'm not the only one who sees the difference, Philip Bloom and Adam Wilt seem to
be saying they do as well. Again though the AF 100 has other advantages which you have done a great job pointing out.
I just don't think it is near as 'cut and dried' as you seem to think it is, that the AF100 is way better. If it wasn't a
close match with both cameras having advantages in certain areas, I don't think I (and so many others I have talked to)
would have had such a hard time choosing which one to buy.....they are both good, they just have different strengths
and weaknesses.

I would agree fs100 has an edge in resolution. Not huge and noticeable but it does. However after reviewing barry's fs100 vs af100, i much prefer the filmic look of the af100.