Panasonic to Preview AVC-Ultra (at NAB 2012)

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Cinematographiliac
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/panasonic-to-preview-avc-ultra/212926

Panasonic to Preview AVC-Ultra

CRAIG JOHNSTON /04.11.2012 12:46PM
SECAUCUS, N.J.—Panasonic's AVC-Ultra compression scheme, the big technology focus for the company at the 2012 NAB Show, will not include the introduction of any products enabled with it. The chipsets are due out in 2013.

But lack of AVC-Ultra products should not take away from the finalization of the breakthrough technology itself. "It's basically a format for all applications, a compression scheme for all applications," said Joe Facchini, vice president, Media and Production Services at Panasonic Solutions Company.

SEAMLESS TRANSITION

"Ultra is a compression scheme that incorporates our current AVC-Intra compression scheme, and also goes to higher bit rates using other profiles of the AVC tool set," he said. "So we have AVC-Intra Class 200, AVC-Intra Class 4:4:4, up to 2K and 4K resolution, and we also have a technology called AVC-LongG, which can get down to 25 Mbps." All of these are recordable on a Panasonic P2 media card.


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[TD="align: left"]Panasonic will mark the NAB debut of its HDC-Z10000 3D camera[/TD]
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Facchini noted that a station with camcorders, servers and editing devices utilizing the AVC-Ultra compression scheme could seamlessly move from one level of picture quality to the next. For example, "if you were at a broadcast facility using the lower bit rate, LongG for news, and then you had a promotion department that wanted to work in 4:4:4, and then you work with a local production company that's doing 2K and 4K," Facchini said, "the compression is all compatible, so editors and servers would all be able to handle it at every level."

Additionally, he said the AVC-Proxy mode, at 6 and 8 Mbps, will enable extremely fast ENG content delivery and offline edits of 720p and 1080p video. "We're going to be showing AVC-Intra in Proxy mode in the booth working with cellular wireless-based transmission systems that you can use instead of a satellite truck," Facchini said.

Could AVC-Ultra find a home in 3D production? "It hasn't been proposed yet, but theoretically you've got enough bandwidth," said Facchini. "In class 200 it might have the capability to record the left eye and the right eye, but we haven't really proposed that as a standard yet. It certainly is possible because at 2K and 4K resolution you could conceivably be utilizing two cameras, side by side, in 4K resolution, in 3D, and having the recording device built in."

In the meantime, AVC-Ultra opens the possibility to 4K solid state camcorders, "which is intriguing because the 2K and 4K cameras that are out there now don't have recorders on them," Facchini said.

UPGRADEABLE CAMERAS

To futureproof customers that need new camcorders now, Panasonic will introduce new cameras at NAB that can be upgraded to AVC-Ultra in 2013. At the time of TV Technology's interview with Facchini, few details on those camcorders were available. One camera making its NAB debut is the HDC-Z10000, a twin-lenses handheld 2D and 3D camcorder, which is AVCHD 3D/Progressive standard compatible.

Another pioneering product from Panasonic that is just beginning delivery is the AV-HS410, a compact, single M/E switcher. "It's kind of a new approach to the way we build switchers," said Facchini. "What's different is the open API and we provide an SDK. It's like writing an app for a tablet or smartphone. You can have a control application, or a colorimetry application, where you can modify the switcher. You could use a tablet to control the switcher from a distance, or have it integrated with pan and tilt zoom cameras. You can write apps right into the switcher that will then work with third party devices."

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[TD="align: left"]Panasonic will demonstrate its latest switcher, the AV-ITS410[/TD]
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At its booth, Panasonic will demonstrate the HDS410 running some of these third party applications. Optional support for stereo 3D functionality will make its debut at this NAB. Stereo 3D functionality requires installation of the AV-HS04M7D optional board, and an upgrade of the switcher itself.

A new family of professional LCD monitors will be unveiled. Facchini said the 9-, 15-, 18 and 21-inch monitors will be "lower cost monitors, good for things like confidence playback. At a station you don't necessarily need a ruggedized, high resolution monitor at every location."

Panasonic made a big splash at the 2010 NAB Show with the AG-3DA1, the world's first professional, fully-integrated Full HD 3D camcorder that records to SD card media. The AG-3DP1, a P2 version of that camera, has just begun shipping, and is finding a home for specific sports and production applications. But Panasonic saw the need for a less expensive one-piece 3D camcorder that customers could experiment with. That spawned the handheld HDC-Z10000, introduced last fall, with a sticker price of $3,500.

"Now you have a camera that people are willing to experiment with in 3D," said Facchini. "It's a very good 2D TV camcorder, works very well. And if people are using it, especially in teaching applications, they can experiment with it in the 3D mode. It's great for the teaching environment, where kids want to learn how to shoot 3D because they're going to work with 3D in the future. For that, it's a perfect camcorder.

"I think the Z10000 is the kind of product that can spur-on 3D in general. It could do for 3D what our affordable handheld AG-HVX200A camcorder did for P2."

Also new in the Pansonic booth will be the BT-LH1850, an 18.5-inch high-performance HD/SD LCD production monitor with 1366x768 resolution, featuring improved cost-performance and significant advances in functionality. With HD/SD SDI and HDMI connectivity, the LH1850 offers a 3D look-up table (LUT), which produces faithful color hues and smooth gradation, together with quick-response motion images.

Panasonic will be in Booth C3607 in the Central Hall.
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AVC-Ultra sounds very cool. Too bad it won't be released until 2013 sometime, although the Panasonic upgrade path strategy could be very nice. I'm curious as to what new (AVC-Ultra-"able") cameras will be released at NAB. An "AF200" with an improved sensor, P2 Card slots and an AVC-Ultra upgrade path would be much welcomed!
 
I don't really get it. Tired of companies all coming up with different "standards." Why can't we just use the compressed and uncompressed formats that are already out there?
 
I don't really get it. Tired of companies all coming up with different "standards." Why can't we just use the compressed and uncompressed formats that are already out there?
I think it's a mix of everyone thinks they can build a better mousetrap, not everyone wants to license another company's tech, some companies won't license out their tech, and each codec has its flaws so the quest for the 'perfect' codec (or at least one with fewer short comings) continues.


-Andrew
 
In the meantime, AVC-Ultra opens the possibility to 4K solid state camcorders, "which is intriguing because the 2K and 4K cameras that are out there now don't have recorders on them," Facchini said.

What on Earth is this man talking about?
 
Why isn't someone making a codec to end all codecs?
It should have the following features:
-unlimited file size
-unlimited resolution
-unlimited bit depth
-unlimited frame rates
-etc...
How hard can it be anyway?
 
Why isn't someone making a codec to end all codecs?
It should have the following features:
-unlimited file size
-unlimited resolution
-unlimited bit depth
-unlimited frame rates
-etc...
How hard can it be anyway?

Well, there is OpenEXR. Supports insane dynamic range, very wide color gamut, stereo, vast numbers of channels, good compression (including lossless and slight lossy compression), 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 sampling, etc. Standard for VFX work and (with ACES) grading in the future. Only issue is that it's an image sequence!

But I don't mind the idea of a 450 megabit compressed 4K AVC Ultra codec. Sounds like a little higher than current Scarlet datarate... not bad! Especially if you can decode the darn thing in realtime without a REDROCKET.

BTW what on earth are Panasonic going on about with the Z10000? It has a fixed interocular! How the heck is that a comparable cam to the HVX200? HVX200 you could use for many different shots because it was versatile. This is way more limited. Where's the cheap mirror rig cam? Or cheap solution with detachable camera heads... Panasonic doesn't understand 3D, it seems.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Don't know if this is the thread to post this, but it IS part of the press release in the OP:

Dear Panasonic,

No one wants large, expensive production monitors in 2012 that aren't full HD 1080p.

1366x768 and 1280x768 were fine six or seven years ago. Not anymore.

C'mon - PLEASE move to 1080p. I'd like to preview EXACTLY what I'm shooting, on-set.

I'd gladly pay a little more for it too (for something like the Sony OLED 17" that's full 1080p HD).
 
Since I have a BT-LH1700 without full HD I can say that the image from that display is gorgeous so a monitor is much more than the resolution spec.
 
Agreed. A monitor is much more than its resolution, and there are lots of lower res monitors with nice pictures. I'm just asking for full HD. I think it's about time for that.

(...also, I'd be willing to bet you'd redefine your definition of "gorgeous" once you've see one of the new Sony OLED production monitors) ;)
 
The codec I would design would be 10-bit, 4:2:2, HD, intra-frame-only, 133 megabits per second.

  1. 10 bit would allow plenty of room for stretching tones in post, especially 10-bit log.
  2. 4:2:2 is indistinguishable from 4:4:4, because human vision has higher res for luma than chroma. It's also still good enough for bluescreen.
  3. HD is at about the limit of human vision at normal distances.
  4. 133 megabits is a compression ratio of about 10:1. If you use either of the two leading compression algorithms (wavelet or MPEG-4) it should be visually lossless.
  5. It also equals about 17 megabytes per second, well within the write speeds of either SDXC or CF cards. You could use commodity media.
  6. It also equals 1 gigabyte per minute. So, it would be dead easy to know how much recording time a given memory card has, just by looking at the label.

Someone will say, well, 4K RAW would be better, or something. But this format is all of these things at the same time:

  1. Fits on commodity media
  2. Easy to calculate recording time from storage space
  3. Is visually lossless
  4. Possible today
 
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The codec I would design would be 10-bit, 4:2:2, HD, intra-frame-only, 133 megabits per second.
Other than being only 100 Mbps rather than 133 Mbps, AVC-Intra 100 fits the bill. It should be possible to produce an AF100 successor with AVC-Intra 100 that costs about $6K. It would be better still if they use SATA 3- or 6-Gbps SSDs.
 
The codec I would design would be 10-bit, 4:2:2, HD, intra-frame-only, 133 megabits per second.
  1. 10 bit would allow plenty of room for stretching tones in post, especially 10-bit log.
  2. 4:2:2 is indistinguishable from 4:4:4, because human vision has higher res for luma than chroma. It's also still good enough for bluescreen.
  3. HD is at about the limit of human vision at normal distances.
  4. 133 megabits is a compression ratio of about 10:1. If you use either of the two leading compression algorithms (wavelet or MPEG-4) it should be visually lossless.
  5. It also equals about 17 megabytes per second, well within the write speeds of either SDXC or CF cards. You could use commodity media.
  6. It also equals 1 gigabyte per minute. So, it would be dead easy to know how much recording time a given memory card has, just by looking at the label.
Someone will say, well, 4K RAW would be better, or something. But this format is all of these things at the same time:
  1. Fits on commodity media
  2. Easy to calculate recording time from storage space
  3. Is visually lossless
  4. Possible today
Doesnt avc intra fit the bill despite 33mb less?
 
AVC-Intra 100 is close. It meets 2, 3, and 4, but not 1 (commodity media). Surprisingly, it meets 2 (1 GB per minute) on P2 cards, even though its bit rate is not 133, because of some kind of redundancy to aid reliability.

The workflow I picture is: take card out of camera, copy to computer for editing, put card on shelf. It's hard to afford to do this with media that is $650 per hour. You also basically have to mail order it. You can't just pick up some at the grocery store. Is P2 a wonderful format? Of course. But not quite as sweet.

Actually, it turns out that ProRes 422 at 24 FPS is 133. So, maybe that would be good enough for me. You could get higher quality at that same bit rate, though, by using newer compression, like wavelets or MPEG-4.
 
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AVC-Intra 100 is close. It meets 2, 3, and 4, but not 1 (commodity media). Surprisingly, it meets 2 (1 GB per minute) on P2 cards, even though its bit rate is not 133, because of some kind of redundancy to aid reliability.

The workflow I picture is: take card out of camera, copy to computer for editing, put card on shelf. It's hard to afford to do this with media that is $650 per hour. You also basically have to mail order it. You can't just pick up some at the grocery store. Is P2 a wonderful format? Of course. But not quite as sweet.

Actually, it turns out that ProRes 422 at 24 FPS is 133. So, maybe that would be good enough for me. You could get higher quality at that same bit rate, though, by using newer compression, like wavelets or MPEG-4.
But this fits only your workflow. Shoot on sd card and keep the card.

Some shoots could go hours and hours. And for others, its basicaly the same in commodity media with p2 where you record and dump. Only difference with it is p2 is much pricier but much secure.

I agree with your points And i would love to shoot avc-i on a cheap media.
t your concern is tailored to your workflow htough Which is not everybody's
 
Problem is, they all make money on licensing out the standard to others. Want to make accessories for all the great cams we sell? Well license recording format xyz.

They just need a compressed format for the masses... then a jack that outputs uncompressed whatever and let us figure out the rest.
 
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