Panasonic S5

It's out!

And everything we knew is confirmed: $2k, 24 Mpix, IBIS, 4k60fps, 10-bit 422 internal (except at 4k60fps), etc. The bit I found surprising: it's actually slightly smaller and lighter than the GH5

Gerald Undone sponsored review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hepPjpE0C8

Looking at the AF test at the end... the AF in video mode is not great, so it's a pass for me :(

It's a camera for people that were already working with that mount
 
This is 80% of the S1H at 50% of the price. As an S1H owner, I’m drawn to the S5 for its smaller body and lighter weight. I also think this is a needed move from Panasonic, these are such well designed cameras it’s a travesty they aren’t garnering the market share they deserve - yet. By introducing such a compelling option at such a competitive price, and now that native L Mount options are expanding, hopefully this will spur more people to the platform.

I said this before, but if Panasonic stays committed to aggressively pursuing the platform its the 2nd generation that will be what really counts. As soon as they get a truly competitive AF system implemented, and once l mount has established itself, people will realize that these are some of the best designed cameras out there.

I have been exceptionally pleased with the S1H reliability, performance, ergonomics, usability. It’s just a brilliant camera, and even though Panasonic just reduced its value I’m all for it because we all win far more by having them in the game. Really want to see L Mount platform succeed as I think Panny simply builds the most well thought out, bullet proof tools.
 
filmguy123 said:
This is 80% of the S1H at 50% of the price. As an S1H owner, I’m drawn to the S5 for its smaller body and lighter weight. I also think this is a needed move from Panasonic, these are such well designed cameras it’s a travesty they aren’t garnering the market share they deserve - yet. By introducing such a compelling option at such a competitive price, and now that native L Mount options are expanding, hopefully this will spur more people to the platform.

I said this before, but if Panasonic stays committed to aggressively pursuing the platform its the 2nd generation that will be what really counts. As soon as they get a truly competitive AF system implemented, and once l mount has established itself, people will realize that these are some of the best designed cameras out there.

I have been exceptionally pleased with the S1H reliability, performance, ergonomics, usability. It’s just a brilliant camera, and even though Panasonic just reduced its value I’m all for it because we all win far more by having them in the game. Really want to see L Mount platform succeed as I think Panny simply builds the most well thought out, bullet proof tools.
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As a GH5 user (and lover) who adapts lenses anyway (Speedbooster-EF) this camera has me VERY intrigued... I am thinking after wedding season this year, I may pull the trigger at the end of this year or beginning of next. Might rent one to see, but I love Panasonic.
 
It's hard for me not to just see this as a small S1. Which is cool. But the S1 even had low-key dual native ISO. You can get it for $2k now with v-log
 
Brandon Rice said:
As a GH5 user (and lover) who adapts lenses anyway (Speedbooster-EF) this camera has me VERY intrigued... I am thinking after wedding season this year, I may pull the trigger at the end of this year or beginning of next. Might rent one to see, but I love Panasonic.
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Yes, can't see any reason not to be extremely intrigued especially if you are already speedboosting EF. Just get the Sigma MC-1 adapter and add this, you'll maintain similar workflow and matching (but expanded) curves and color. No-brainer IMO!

ahalpert said:
It's hard for me not to just see this as a small S1. Which is cool. But the S1 even had low-key dual native ISO. You can get it for $2k now with v-log
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Sure, but it's much closer to a small S1H - this has far better video tools, codecs, etc. than the S1 did. The S1 has a very questionably place in the lineup now... IMO it's basically a choice between the S5, S1R, or S1H - and with the S5 intro, the S1R and S1H are essentially niche cameras at this point. The S1H is twice the cost and is a clear winner in a few categories - but it's also a trade-off, with the S5 having the size/weight advantage as well as better AF according to newshooter.
 
filmguy123 said:
Sure, but it's much closer to a small S1H - this has far better video tools, codecs, etc. than the S1 did. The S1 has a very questionably place in the lineup now... IMO it's basically a choice between the S5, S1R, or S1H - and with the S5 intro, the S1R and S1H are essentially niche cameras at this point. The S1H is twice the cost and is a clear winner in a few categories - but it's also a trade-off, with the S5 having the size/weight advantage as well as better AF according to newshooter.
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Yeah, the S1 is dead now.

But the S5 has the same codecs, framerates, crops and resolution.

Some nice additions - vectorscope, luminance spot meter, anamorphic capture and ESPECIALLY RAW out.

But it seems generally pretty similar to the S1 to me. Hardly ground breaking besides the size and the price.

And apparently it overheats in the sun faster than the a7siii.
 
Man, if it were for $1500 ($1800 w/ kit lens) I'd swallow my reservations about the lack of native glass, color science, & marginal auto-focus and order one tonight.

As it is though, I'm going to see what happens with the Canon cripple clock and the Sony A7c.

The one serious omission is the lack of a full HDMI port. This seems to be a very silly segmentation decision that doesn't really segment, but rather only annoys users.

Still an impressive camera, just perhaps not quite as impressive as the relative competition for the price.
 
ahalpert said:
But the S5 has the same codecs, framerates, crops and resolution.
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The S5 has 4k 60p 10-bit 420, the S1 did not - huge deal there.

The S5 also has more codec options overall - for example, the S1 didn't even have the option to shoot FHD in 24p (only 30p in FHD, 24p was available only in 4k).

The S1H addressed all the video complaints of the S1 - it added the swivel screen, the codecs, and the video friendly UI software tool features that the S1 lacked - but it did so at twice the cost. S5 does this at less than the cost, plus better AF, plus smaller and lighter.

Re: overheating, we'll see - but for this reason, I don't regret the S1H.
 
jdv said:
Man, if it were for $1500 ($1800 w/ kit lens) I'd swallow my reservations about the lack of native glass, color science, & marginal auto-focus and order one tonight.
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I chuckled, it never ends. Price is fantastic on this camera for what it delivers.

Re: color science, surprising, I think Panny has some of the best and one of the easiest to grade log curves. Besides, with cinematch and other tools it's extremely easy to translate colors to one's liking, and easier when starting from such a strong color science and LOG curve. YMMV.

Lack of native glass is a real thing, but the lenses available now are so excellent and cover all the bases, does it matter that much, especially when it's so adaptable? Especially for video, this seems rather trivial.

jdv said:
The one serious omission is the lack of a full HDMI port. This seems to be a very silly segmentation decision that doesn't really segment, but rather only annoys users.
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It's for size reasons.
 
filmguy123 said:
The S5 has 4k 60p 10-bit 420, the S1 did not - huge deal there.

The S5 also has more codec options overall - for example, the S1 didn't even have the option to shoot FHD in 24p (only 30p in FHD, 24p was available only in 4k).

The S1H addressed all the video complaints of the S1 - it added the swivel screen, the codecs, and the video friendly UI software tool features that the S1 lacked - but it did so at twice the cost. S5 does this at less than the cost, plus better AF, plus smaller and lighter.

Re: overheating, we'll see - but for this reason, I don't regret the S1H.
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You make good points, especially about 4k60p 10-bit - I didnt realize that.

S1 did fhd 24p but in lesser codecs, yes.

Those other features you mentioned are good, too. I still dont think the s5 has usable autofocus.

Cropping in for 4k60p is a bummer.

I'm very glad I sold my S1 already, though. I'm not planning on getting an s5 but it's going to kill the demand for the S1. It's undeniably better for video although it lacks the 2 things that take me to the A7SIII: no-crop 4k60p and good AF
 
From the DPReview video comparing the S5 and S1H autofocus, it seems like they might have reduced the amount of autofocus pulsing over previous Panasonic cameras, although it doesn't seem like the overall focus accuracy is necessarily improved:
https://youtu.be/x6FQ8hSZLz0?t=395

Note that whatever improvements there are to the DFD autofocus on the S5 will apparently be added to the S1 and S1H in a future firmware update.
 
All the YouTubers got a preproduction model. Panasonic promises some improvements for the shipping versions. Gerald Undone has his AF test in a 20 min video and it doesn't overwhelm when pushed. When the lighting can be more to its liking, as in Max Yuriev's clip, it's passable.

Gerald didn't elaborate on the pixel-shift mode on the stills. S1 had an anti-blur feature. One has to assume that that's been improved as well.
 
Kai W also got one, he seems to really like it, but the AF in video mode is atrocious, just watch the first minute of the video and you'll probably conclude that no, you don't want to shoot with this kind of AF. I'd use it as pre-roll push-to-focus only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjU483Zm2mc

 
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I agree that the performance in Kai's video is terrible. For what it's worth, there's a comment from some Lumix account asking what firmware version he's on, pointing out that the performance in his video is noticeably worse than other reviewers'.
 
Let's hope it's that or some setting that's just not where it should be, because the difference I see with respect to the other reviewers is that he's not trying to test the AF but just use the camera in a real-world setting, doing the same thing he always does. And the AF fails badly.
 
From what I'm reading/watching, the AF is significantly improved when in APS-C modes, especially 60p. As someone who only needs AF in certain situations, especially run n gun b-roll which I normally shoot in 60p, I'm still holding out hope that this can replace at least one of my GH5's.
 
filmguy123 said:
I chuckled, it never ends. Price is fantastic on this camera for what it delivers.
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Perhaps in a vacuum for existing users of L glass, but no, for attracting new buyers in - even loyal Panasonic users - $2000 is not a compelling price for a camera with such massive gaps in performance, much less a "fantastic" one. Perhaps as an acknowledgement of this, Panasonic is offering a free 45mm prime to buyers "while supplies last".

The auto-focus is shockingly bad. In Hugh Brownstone's review - where he does little else but sit still for the camera - the S5 continually pulsed and hunted. Like the entire time.; it never stopped. It was subtle, but always there. Amazingly bad for any camera released in 2020, regardless of sensor size. The S5 is completely unusable for any professional occasion, or even high end youtube channel if autofocus is required.

Honestly, I was straight up shocked at how bad it was in all the videos.

Simply put, this new S5 can't do what the year old, $899 Canon RP new in the box can do - deliver usable autofocus in full frame. Every other non-Panasonic large sensor camera made recently has better autofocus - including the now 3 plus year old Olympus EM1 MII and the 2 year old Sony A7III.

While most of what I do is narrative work (ie - hand pulled focus), I sure as heck don't want to have to switch cameras (and realistically, systems) to do a blog or other semi-pro or family shooting where auto-focus would be useful. Documentaries, vlogs, news gathering, event work, and more all demand/expect good autofocus in modern hybrid camera.

That's doubly true for a brand new release in the 2nd half of this year. Bad autofocus is unacceptable to many buyers period, and doubly so for those looking to perhaps get into the L system for the first time.

Why in the world would someone looking to upgrade from the GH5 want a camera that does less on the video side, with far worse IBIS and autofocus and no full sized HDMI port to boot? All in a system with almost no stabilized glass - something clearly needed for a camera marketed as "great for vlogging" because of its sub-par IBIS.

Far as the mini-HDMI port is concerned, there's plenty of room for a full sized cable port. Caleb at DSLR Shooter demonstrated that right off the bat in his review and of course, the GH5 has one on nearly an identical body size/shape.

The choice to use a mini HDMI port - along with dumbing down an already not great IBIS system - is remarkably short sighted if the goal was to kick start interest in the L mount. Why would a GH5 user want to take a step backwards in usability? Why would any existing Canon or Sony user jump ship to this system? Certainly not for $2000.

So while you might chuckle, I'm guessing no one at Panasonic will be after this year's sales are in.
 
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I guess the hope lies in that, with different foreground/background lighting and the auto focus speed and mode adjustments, the pulsing can be minimized. That said, R6 and the new Sony A7c may suit the videographers needs better. And those are more popular mounts to begin with.

PS. I mentioned the laser based AF in other threads. The fact that Panasonic has kept wildly unpopular and terribly underperforming DFD system in their $2,000-$4,000 cameras speaks more about the cartel than Panasonic.
 
jdv said:
Perhaps in a vacuum for existing users of L glass (...)
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I think that's the target demographic for this camera: it's a defensive move in the sense that it's very compelling for people that are already using the L mount, maybe even for GH5/GH5s users that like the Panasonic image but want something better for stills. But it's not making many people move from Sony or Canon towards this mount.
 
To be honest I find the entire L series odd. Stunning cameras and quality but at the end of the day its Panasonic and few pro photographers think of Panasonic when they invest in a $5,000 lens. Yeah Leica makes some darn good lenses but I'm not entirely sure its worth the price tag over other alternatives.

I think Panasonic made a big mistake using the L mount. The bodies are too expensive given a brand new mount and cameras that are a clear under dog in the pro photo market. The lenses are grossly over priced for most humans on the planet. A $5,000 and $7,000 pair of zoom lenses buys one heck of a solid set of Canon lenses. Yes the S cameras can adapt other lens systems and that's cool but adapting isn't always 100% perfect. Those that do care about autofocus performance are likely going to have to buy a L mount lens for the best performance.

Eventually Panasonic may create more affordable L mount lenses but we are many years from that and unless the sales really start to pick up I don't see Panasonic able to keep this system going forever. M43 already struggled and it was massive compared to this.

I would love a S1H but it just isn't the bang for buck that makes sense. At the extreme high end there are plenty of other options.
 
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