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Panasonic P2 store
- Thread starter Jarred Land
- Start date
k2director
Well-known member
Jarred Land said:
Thanks for the review, Jarred!
One question: did you notice if the P2 Store was very sensitive regarding physical movement while doing a copy? In other words, could you pick up and carry the unit while it was copying a card, or would that result in a copy error, and require you to start over again? I've heard from some users that any movement at all would result in an error, and was wondering if that was your experience as well...
mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
yes in deed a good review, thanks Jarred.
...and to ad to the previous and the end of the review, maybe the reason there are no straps or mounts on this thing is becuase they want you to set it somewhere to do it thing, and not have it trying to copy while slung over your shoulder as you run down the sidelines. - Of course there's still the transposrting issue, but me me that forced aditional security would at least be justified, if not desirable by some.
- Mikko
...and to ad to the previous and the end of the review, maybe the reason there are no straps or mounts on this thing is becuase they want you to set it somewhere to do it thing, and not have it trying to copy while slung over your shoulder as you run down the sidelines. - Of course there's still the transposrting issue, but me me that forced aditional security would at least be justified, if not desirable by some.
- Mikko
Isn't it so that it doesn't matter how full the card is( 10% or 100%), it always takes the same amount of time to copy? Like it copies a whole disk-image( ok, 'card'-image') byte for byte, instead of a file-based copy, even if a part of the card only contains a lot of zero's?
This would explain the slighty slower time for a nearly full card using the Store instead of a laptop. It would also mean that it is best to get the P2-cards as full as possible before copying to minimize waste: After copying 15 cards with only 1 minute of footage, the disk is full.
This would explain the slighty slower time for a nearly full card using the Store instead of a laptop. It would also mean that it is best to get the P2-cards as full as possible before copying to minimize waste: After copying 15 cards with only 1 minute of footage, the disk is full.
mikkowilson said:
the motion sensor block would suggest that you probally are more on the money then you may know.
monolith
Active member
Gracias for overview, Jarred.
Q: How does the P2 Store let you know that you've already copied the card? A cascade of angry flashing lights? (I know I could find out for myself but it's on loan and I'm impatient).
Is it then safe to assume that the capacity of the P2 Store is not actually 60Gb, but rather 15 x 4Gb cards (regardless of how full they are when copied over)? In which case every Gb of card space counts?
Q: How does the P2 Store let you know that you've already copied the card? A cascade of angry flashing lights? (I know I could find out for myself but it's on loan and I'm impatient).
eLeventy said:
Is it then safe to assume that the capacity of the P2 Store is not actually 60Gb, but rather 15 x 4Gb cards (regardless of how full they are when copied over)? In which case every Gb of card space counts?
lpcvideo1
Veteran
This is such a helpful review, and well timed. I am trying to figure out what to get. My laptop has produced some "user error"--I copied the same card twice, and missed copying the third. Ouch--lost that footage forever.
Good observation, although that's still alot of actual footage.
But, would three 16GB cards, each with one minute on them leave me with only three minutes of footage on the P2 Store?
Thanks, Jarred, for the review.
Good observation, although that's still alot of actual footage.
But, would three 16GB cards, each with one minute on them leave me with only three minutes of footage on the P2 Store?
Thanks, Jarred, for the review.
Good review, and...
Good review, and...
The P2Store simply cannot be moved while copying data without interrupting the disk plater. I think Panasonic might've struggled with how to case this device as it is indeed surrounded on all sides by a heat sink - that makes a hard or soft case solution somewhat troublesome.
Tabs for suspending the unit might "suggest" that you should put a nice PortaBrace style strap on it. I don't think that Panasonic wants the interrupt mode disabled, so any hanging mechanism is effectively out.
I like the operation of the P2Store, but was really frustrated with having to eject the cards prior to formatting them after each copy. The power button trick has aleviated this annoyance.
I think two P2Stores set to Verify and three 4GB cards constitutes the perfect shooting package for almost any situation. Fill one Store and then continue shooting to the second until the end of the day.
Otherwise, you'll need a clapper-loader position created for each camera under almost any serious shooting scenario. For documentary and reality, the "creation" of this unique camera crew position is a necessity.
e
Good review, and...
The P2Store simply cannot be moved while copying data without interrupting the disk plater. I think Panasonic might've struggled with how to case this device as it is indeed surrounded on all sides by a heat sink - that makes a hard or soft case solution somewhat troublesome.
Tabs for suspending the unit might "suggest" that you should put a nice PortaBrace style strap on it. I don't think that Panasonic wants the interrupt mode disabled, so any hanging mechanism is effectively out.
I like the operation of the P2Store, but was really frustrated with having to eject the cards prior to formatting them after each copy. The power button trick has aleviated this annoyance.
I think two P2Stores set to Verify and three 4GB cards constitutes the perfect shooting package for almost any situation. Fill one Store and then continue shooting to the second until the end of the day.
Otherwise, you'll need a clapper-loader position created for each camera under almost any serious shooting scenario. For documentary and reality, the "creation" of this unique camera crew position is a necessity.
e
P2 store for Mac users
P2 store for Mac users
This is my first posting (ever), so forgive if I blunder into any ethical bushes. Thanks to all contributors to this forum: I've found it very helpful, so wish to return thanks with some info.
Thanks to Jarred for a well-rounded review of the P2 Store. I've just taken delivery of my unit and offer some comments particularly for Forum members who are Mac users, but some general pointers too. I’ve only just received it, so these are pretty much first impressions but I hope you find them useful.
Firstly, it is true that the numerous safety features get in the way of smooth operation, but Panasonic’s attention to safety and prevention of inadvertent error in a production environment is the right priority, IHM. For example, I too was disappointed to discover there is no way to carry the P2 Store over the shoulder but on reflection I see it makes sense to force us to do the copying on a stable surface - even if it's only the ground. So not only does the motion sensor cut in to prevent copying on the move, the lack of attachment for a shoulder sling doesn’t even let us go there.
This production-centred conservatism also explains (to me) why we have only a 60GB platter: it is far more reliable than the 100GB, 120GB platters out there.
A little whine to Panasonic from me: it is laughable for the instruction book to suggest that a battery for the P2 Store is ‘optional’. For an expensive production tool to ship without a battery or even power adaptor is plain mean-minded whichever way I look at it. I humbly suggest to Panasonic that it should always ship a small battery with the unit. It is safe to assume that a buyer will have a battery charger, but no reason at all to assume that we’d use one of our camera batteries for the unit – especially as it needs only the smaller ones, 2800 mAh or so.
Another request to Panasonic: let’s have a Mac OS version of P2 Store Manager, please? Not everyone can afford HDLog Gold ($799), and even then, we still can’t access the disk utilities.
Back to business. The P2 Store to computer interface is USB 2.0, not plain USB. For Mac users, as Jarred points out, it must be hard-set to be Mac compliant. (Hold those three buttons – Cancel, Battery Level + HD capacity for at least 5 sec: Cancel is hard to press deep enough). But that is not all. You need to install the P2 reader utility which comes with the unit. If you try to mount the P2 Store before installing the utility, the volume will show up as unreadable, and you are invited to initialize or eject. DO NOT INITIALIZE, whatever you do. (This destroys the partitioning which helps to keep the unit working rapidly, as it minimises fragmentation.)
Even after installing the P2 reader the P2 Store does not mount on Mac OS 10 in the normal way. As it is write-protected, you cannot copy anything to it. So if there is no data on the P2 Store, it will not mount on the desk-top at all: your OS will warn you of an unreadable disc and invite you to ignore or eject. (Notice the warning is not the standard OS warning panel – and that it does not offer you to initialize.) When you have data on the P2 Store, the unit mounts as a volume. You can then copy - drag the folder – which carries not only the video but the sound, key frame and other stuff – to your hard disk. I found it was a little picky at first about copying to a non-boot disk, but after a few tries there has been no repetition of the problem. Speeds are up to what I’d expect for USB 2.0. It’s worth noting the drive will mount and copy to USB too (my old G4) – though of course that takes many times longer.
Back to the production-centred safety features: almost every feature needs you to press a button for two or more seconds. This slows down operation, but you can see the sense of it. Naturally, formatting the card is rather involved: hold the P2C button down until the LEDs respond, then press another within 2 secs - and I mean 2 sec, if any longer, you have to start over again.
Strictly speaking the drive is not formatted (even though the instruction book calls it that) because you do not touch a hair of the partitions, but during 'formatting', data is removed from the disk. You start to get the idea that the P2 Store is no ordinary hard-disk but has a lot of hard-wired or firmware features intervening you and that spinning platter – which, after all, is probably only a soak-tested 60GB HDD costing Panasonic less than a hundred dollars.
I’m looking forward to using the P2 Store on a shoot next week – I’m sure it’ll pay for itself in the long run – if only in saved time - no more digitizing, rewinding, loading tape (whoopee!). And it’s a revelation to have near-instant start up when filming. So, what will happen when directors lose that little moment of communion with the DP when one shouts ‘Camera!’ and waits for the reply ‘Speed!’ before ordering ‘Action!’?
Have fun!
rgbUSER
P2 store for Mac users
This is my first posting (ever), so forgive if I blunder into any ethical bushes. Thanks to all contributors to this forum: I've found it very helpful, so wish to return thanks with some info.
Thanks to Jarred for a well-rounded review of the P2 Store. I've just taken delivery of my unit and offer some comments particularly for Forum members who are Mac users, but some general pointers too. I’ve only just received it, so these are pretty much first impressions but I hope you find them useful.
Firstly, it is true that the numerous safety features get in the way of smooth operation, but Panasonic’s attention to safety and prevention of inadvertent error in a production environment is the right priority, IHM. For example, I too was disappointed to discover there is no way to carry the P2 Store over the shoulder but on reflection I see it makes sense to force us to do the copying on a stable surface - even if it's only the ground. So not only does the motion sensor cut in to prevent copying on the move, the lack of attachment for a shoulder sling doesn’t even let us go there.
This production-centred conservatism also explains (to me) why we have only a 60GB platter: it is far more reliable than the 100GB, 120GB platters out there.
A little whine to Panasonic from me: it is laughable for the instruction book to suggest that a battery for the P2 Store is ‘optional’. For an expensive production tool to ship without a battery or even power adaptor is plain mean-minded whichever way I look at it. I humbly suggest to Panasonic that it should always ship a small battery with the unit. It is safe to assume that a buyer will have a battery charger, but no reason at all to assume that we’d use one of our camera batteries for the unit – especially as it needs only the smaller ones, 2800 mAh or so.
Another request to Panasonic: let’s have a Mac OS version of P2 Store Manager, please? Not everyone can afford HDLog Gold ($799), and even then, we still can’t access the disk utilities.
Back to business. The P2 Store to computer interface is USB 2.0, not plain USB. For Mac users, as Jarred points out, it must be hard-set to be Mac compliant. (Hold those three buttons – Cancel, Battery Level + HD capacity for at least 5 sec: Cancel is hard to press deep enough). But that is not all. You need to install the P2 reader utility which comes with the unit. If you try to mount the P2 Store before installing the utility, the volume will show up as unreadable, and you are invited to initialize or eject. DO NOT INITIALIZE, whatever you do. (This destroys the partitioning which helps to keep the unit working rapidly, as it minimises fragmentation.)
Even after installing the P2 reader the P2 Store does not mount on Mac OS 10 in the normal way. As it is write-protected, you cannot copy anything to it. So if there is no data on the P2 Store, it will not mount on the desk-top at all: your OS will warn you of an unreadable disc and invite you to ignore or eject. (Notice the warning is not the standard OS warning panel – and that it does not offer you to initialize.) When you have data on the P2 Store, the unit mounts as a volume. You can then copy - drag the folder – which carries not only the video but the sound, key frame and other stuff – to your hard disk. I found it was a little picky at first about copying to a non-boot disk, but after a few tries there has been no repetition of the problem. Speeds are up to what I’d expect for USB 2.0. It’s worth noting the drive will mount and copy to USB too (my old G4) – though of course that takes many times longer.
Back to the production-centred safety features: almost every feature needs you to press a button for two or more seconds. This slows down operation, but you can see the sense of it. Naturally, formatting the card is rather involved: hold the P2C button down until the LEDs respond, then press another within 2 secs - and I mean 2 sec, if any longer, you have to start over again.
Strictly speaking the drive is not formatted (even though the instruction book calls it that) because you do not touch a hair of the partitions, but during 'formatting', data is removed from the disk. You start to get the idea that the P2 Store is no ordinary hard-disk but has a lot of hard-wired or firmware features intervening you and that spinning platter – which, after all, is probably only a soak-tested 60GB HDD costing Panasonic less than a hundred dollars.
I’m looking forward to using the P2 Store on a shoot next week – I’m sure it’ll pay for itself in the long run – if only in saved time - no more digitizing, rewinding, loading tape (whoopee!). And it’s a revelation to have near-instant start up when filming. So, what will happen when directors lose that little moment of communion with the DP when one shouts ‘Camera!’ and waits for the reply ‘Speed!’ before ordering ‘Action!’?
Have fun!
rgbUSER
welcome Robuser, thats one hell of a first post 
I like Robuser better ha ha ha
ha ha haworkaholic
Member
rgbuser said:
I don't understand. Why is a 60GB far more reliable than a 100GB drive?
because 60gb are only one platter.
Inventive_Dave
Member
Hi everyone. Thanks for the review (month later, sorry). And thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I just got my Store today and l o v e the way it's built. Everything should be built like that. Operationally I haven't had much time to play with it yet, but all the info here will help soften my learning curve. Right off the bat, though, I have to second rgbuser's plea: PLEASE Panasonic, offer some Mac software support.
--Dave
--Dave
KS_Rockstar
Member
errrr...... i thought i made a post here reviewing the p2.... did it get moved or deleted??
I am a ninja